Batman Beyond: Rebirth

[RobbyB1982]

I don't think the rogues gallery really compares to Spiderman though.

Well sure, Spidey's had decades to hone the gallery down to the really memorable ones. Original Batman for that matter as well.

You look at those early Spider stories, and you got Doc Ock and Sandman and Vulture and Lizard and Electro and Mysterio and Green Goblin all in the first 15 issues! What a roster! But then those guys got reused for about two years, and then you started getting Scorpion and Rhino and Shocker and Morbius... who are fine second stringers... but then you start getting Jackal, Tinkerer, Hydro-man, Big Man, Living Brain, Molten Man, Looter, Prowler, Kangaroo, Schemer, Tarantula, Big Wheel? You don't get to Venom until the late 80's and there haven't really been any new iconic Spidey villains in the 3 decades since. Maybe Mr. Negative?

Yeah, there's a lot of standout characters in there that have stood the test of time and reiteration and make it into every animated show and video game and the movies... but there's hundreds of duds in there too.

BB went right into it in one go, 3 seasons, 52 episodes, had to reuse some classic bat foees in the process like Freeze, Rax, and Joker... and had no further iterations after that. Of course the Rogues Gallery isn't as iconic, you haven't been seeing them in 12 different cartoons and live action outings and 800 comics your entire life, it have decades to build on and reiterate.

Spellbinder, Inque, Blight, Shriek were all pretty solid out the gate villains though.

[Thebestoftherest]

I am going to say this, the title is confusion after DC rebirth.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I don't think the rogues gallery really compares to Spiderman though.

Well sure, Spidey's had decades to hone the gallery down to the really memorable ones. Original Batman for that matter as well.

You look at those early Spider stories, and you got Doc Ock and Sandman and Vulture and Lizard and Electro and Mysterio and Green Goblin all in the first 15 issues! What a roster! But then those guys got reused for about two years, and then you started getting Scorpion and Rhino and Shocker and Morbius... who are fine second stringers... but then you start getting Jackal, Tinkerer, Hydro-man, Big Man, Living Brain, Molten Man, Looter, Prowler, Kangaroo, Schemer, Tarantula, Big Wheel? You don't get to Venom until the late 80's and there haven't really been any new iconic Spidey villains in the 3 decades since. Maybe Mr. Negative?

Yeah, there's a lot of standout characters in there that have stood the test of time and reiteration and make it into every animated show and video game and the movies... but there's hundreds of duds in there too.

BB went right into it in one go, 3 seasons, 52 episodes, had to reuse some classic bat foees in the process like Freeze, Rax, and Joker... and had no further iterations after that. Of course the Rogues Gallery isn't as iconic, you haven't been seeing them in 12 different cartoons and live action outings and 800 comics your entire life, it have decades to build on and reiterate.

Spellbinder, Inque, Blight, Shriek were all pretty solid out the gate villains though.

Don't forget Carnage. He made the best Venom movie so far.

I am going to say this, the title is confusion after DC rebirth.

It's even worse with Star Trek: First Contact because that is both the best episode and best movie.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

BB went right into it in one go, 3 seasons, 52 episodes, had to reuse some classic bat foees in the process like Freeze, Rax, and Joker... and had no further iterations after that. Of course the Rogues Gallery isn't as iconic, you haven't been seeing them in 12 different cartoons and live action outings and 800 comics your entire life, it have decades to build on and reiterate.

Batman Beyond actually made for a lot of great epitaphs to villain plots. The tail-end to the live action Gotham's beak.

[RobbyB1982]

Don't forget Carnage. He made the best Venom movie so far.

Carnage is just ripoff Venom, after they turned the character into a hero because he was too popular not too. The same way Hobgoblin, Grey Goblin, Demogoblin and ProtoGoblin are shallow copies of characters that came before. Or Red Hulk and Grey Hulk and Amadeus Hulk. Or many of Iron Man's villains.

Yeah they might have something interesting or different about them, a specific variant gimmick, but they're entirely second generation versions that rarely escape the shadow of their originals and aren't REALLY new ideas. You can't credit Carnage as a memorable member of the rogues gallery without a big honking asterisk next to name saying "Venom II". Because otuside of the design, everything interesting about him comes from the character before him.

That's different from say, Harley Quinn, who absolutely owes her existence to the Joker... but had a completely different style and gimmick and became a very different unique thing over time.

Carnage has never not been "second venom." Heck, even Venom can't escape that. They switched him over to the Scorpion for a while to freshen both characters up and then he still ended up back at Eddie Brock because they can't really grow and change.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

He's a DC'esque villain. One dimensional hyperbolic backdrop with vivid execution.

Venom has the saga introduction. The whole process of the symbiote going from Peter Parker to Brock and the story that falls out. He is the Schrödinger's Cat between hero and villain convention.

Carnage is very pulp, but it is detailed nonetheless. The symbiote infiltrated Cassidy's brain to the point where it is observably inseparable compared to Brock's condition, as Brock's condition is particular compared to Parker's as well.

[CharlesPhipps]

Carnage, who is based on the Joker, works very well against Spider-Man and is one of those rare Nineties creations who deserved to stick around. Someone who is just absolute evil and enjoys sick humor is something that contrasts well against Peter Parker's self-loathing Neutral Good.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Carnage, who is based on the Joker, works very well against Spider-Man and is one of those rare Nineties creations who deserved to stick around. Someone who is just absolute evil and enjoys sick humor is something that contrasts well against Peter Parker's self-loathing Neutral Good.

Hey thanks! I really appreciate that.

He is probably the second best Liefeld character after dead pool.