Coronavirus - the new pandemic

[sayla0079]

I didn't say they did. What I meant is let's say for example a kid gets vaccinated then they have fewer/weaker symptoms if they catch it, which means fewer or weaker symptoms transfer to other people.

Note I am not a medical student so I am going by the assumption. If someone in here is trained medically feel free to correct me.

That's not how it works. Symptoms are the expression of the damage caused by the viral matter appropriating your body's cells for replication and the immune response of your body (e.g. inflammation, coughing, increased mucus production and so on). You do not "transmit symptoms", what you transmit is the virus itself, which is basically just a strand of RNA wrapped in a protein shell (which you, for example, cough or sneeze out, along with the side-products of the replication and immuno-reaction).

The trick with vaccination is, that your body is much more effective at recognizing and reacting to an infection before it spreads far in your body, which means less damage to your body, which results in less symptoms. You can still be infected, will still be infected, but thanks to the quick reaction of the immune-system, you'll not suffer much or any noticible damage, have no symptoms, not be sick.
In some cases the immune-reaction is so effective, that you are not going to transmit any viral matter or only extremely weakened viral matter and thus be not infectious. In other cases, the immune-reaction is effective enough that you are not going to be sick, yet still transmit effective viral matter.

But, and that's the thing, even if you are still infectious, if your body is much more effective at combating the disease, it means you'll be sick for less time and thus have less opportunity to spread effective viral matter. You'll also produce less viral matter that can be transmitted in the first place and thanks to the absence of some symptoms, the viral matter will have less means to transmit. You'll spread much more viral matter by coughing and sneezing, for example, than you do by simply inhaling and exhaling.
So, overall, if you are vaccinated and you get reinfected and still end up being infectious, everyone is better off, because you spread less infectious matter, than that unvaccinated twat who runs through the store coughing, sneezing and touching everything.

Thank you for correcting me.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I was under the impression that a lot of people testing positive weren't cognizant of anyone coughing/sneezing on them.

How many people coughed and sneezed on you, when you last had a common cold? Coughing and sneezing increases the amount of infected bodily fluid execreted into the air and spreads it further than the simple ever-present water droplets we exhale, due to the usually considerably more violent way of expelling that matter from your body. Just breathing the same air in can be enough to get infected. Touching a surface that someone exhaled into the vague direction of can be enough to get infected.

Yep that's the point. For people testing positive it wasn't a matter of being exposed to symptoms.

That's what I meant to say when I said that a lot of the understanding of how one got infected seemed to be simply knowing that you had contact with someone who turned out to be sick, thus explaining your own positive test result.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Thank you for correcting me.

You must have been aware that the virus is highly contagious in spite of symptoms, yes?

[sayla0079]

Thank you for correcting me.

You must have been aware that the virus is highly contagious in spite of symptoms, yes?

Yes, I was aware but I wasn't aware that Vaccines wouldn't lower the virus symptoms upon passing to the next person.

[Madner Kami]

[...] a matter of being exposed to symptoms.

[...] Vaccines wouldn't lower the virus symptoms upon passing to the next person.

I'm honestly confused by the choice of words here. Symptoms are the expression of a disease within a given body, largely caused by a given disease co-opting or hampering your bodily functions, as well as the body's immuno-reaction to said disruptions of the bodily functions and combating the disease.

Let's go really baseline here. A fever is a symptom. It is caused by your body increasing it's operating temperature in order to literally burn out stuff it doesn't want inside itself.
Have you ever heard of a certain type of asian bees defending against hornets by piling up on them and thus overheating and killing the hornet? The hornet overheats and dies of heat-exhaustion, while the bees are just that little bit more resistant to heat and can maintain their bodily functions even at the increased heat they create in the piling, plus being able to cycle from the inside to the outside of the pile and thus better regulating their individual temperature.


youtu.be/UNroEwFxh6I

This is literally what your body does, when you have a fever. A lot of aminoacids break down at ~40°and our bodies are far more adapt at resisting such temperatures, while a lot of bacteria and virus RNA will just fall apart due to the heat stress, which will help in dealing with an infection (even though the overheating will be very unpleasent for yourself, but you will survive it, usually).

Now, you can't be "exposed to a fever". And vaccines can't "lower a fever upon passing to the next person". There's some miscommunication going on here.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I didn't say they did. What I meant is let's say for example a kid gets vaccinated then they have fewer/weaker symptoms if they catch it, which means fewer or weaker symptoms transfer to other people.

Note I am not a medical student so I am going by the assumption. If someone in here is trained medically feel free to correct me.

That's not how it works. Symptoms are the expression of the damage caused by the viral matter appropriating your body's cells for replication and the immune response of your body (e.g. inflammation, coughing, increased mucus production and so on). You do not "transmit symptoms", what you transmit is the virus itself, which is basically just a strand of RNA wrapped in a protein shell (which you, for example, cough or sneeze out, along with the side-products of the replication and immuno-reaction).

The trick with vaccination is, that your body is much more effective at recognizing and reacting to an infection before it spreads far in your body, which means less damage to your body, which results in less symptoms. You can still be infected, will still be infected, but thanks to the quick reaction of the immune-system, you'll not suffer much or any noticible damage, have no symptoms, not be sick.
In some cases the immune-reaction is so effective, that you are not going to transmit any viral matter or only extremely weakened viral matter and thus be not infectious. In other cases, the immune-reaction is effective enough that you are not going to be sick, yet still transmit effective viral matter.

But, and that's the thing, even if you are still infectious, if your body is much more effective at combating the disease, it means you'll be sick for less time and thus have less opportunity to spread effective viral matter. You'll also produce less viral matter that can be transmitted in the first place and thanks to the absence of some symptoms, the viral matter will have less means to transmit. You'll spread much more viral matter by coughing and sneezing, for example, than you do by simply inhaling and exhaling.
So, overall, if you are vaccinated and you get reinfected and still end up being infectious, everyone is better off, because you spread less infectious matter, than that unvaccinated twat who runs through the store coughing, sneezing and touching everything.

I was mainly referring to this. It wasn't supposed to encompass all symptoms, just ones that are directly understood to enhance viral transmission between people.

That as per my understanding was Sayla's understanding of transmission.

Given that you did a flyover at the very least there, I assumed you were affirming Sayla's discrete understanding of the process.

Technically, the very aspect of being contagious is a symptom in it of itself, but when it becomes just a matter of generic stuff like breathing and talking then it's not really best described as a symptom of the disease. I think mainly because symptoms are purposed to describe the effects done unto the host themselves. That or the aspect of contagion is significant enough to not be confined to personal symptoms.

[Madner Kami]

Technically, the very aspect of being contagious is a symptom in it of itself,

No, it isn't. Fever, coughing, headaches, increased production of mucus, inflammation, lethargy those are symptoms of a disease. Being contagious isn't an expression of a body as a reaction or result of a disease. Contagious simply means that a disease is transmissable from one human to another. A "contagious symptom" simply doesn't exist, because it's the underlying disease or cause of disease which is contagious.

And I am not being fecitious or anything, I just want to get the communication right. Miscommunication lead to enough troubles in regards to to CoViD already.

[sayla0079]

As I said thank you for correcting me, I am not trained in medical science so I wasn't sure if what I said was accurate.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Technically, the very aspect of being contagious is a symptom in it of itself,

No, it isn't. Fever, coughing, headaches, increased production of mucus, inflammation, lethargy those are symptoms of a disease. Being contagious isn't an expression of a body as a reaction or result of a disease. Contagious simply means that a disease is transmissable from one human to another. A "contagious symptom" simply doesn't exist, because it's the underlying disease or cause of disease which is contagious.

And I am not being fecitious or anything, I just want to get the communication right. Miscommunication lead to enough troubles in regards to to CoViD already.

I'm finding that symptoms indeed are expressions of the body, but are confined to subjective feelings that can't be measured objectively. They seem to be coordinated directly with objective signs, as far as the features you're referring to.

Increased production of mucus, for instance, is a sign. A fever is a sign involving increased body temperature with the symptom of feeling hot.

[Madner Kami]

Symptom is a medicinal synonym for "sign for a disease/illness".