Speaking as a guy who professionally writes funny books (Supervillainy Saga was a best seller for a brief hot second), I don't have any problem with cringe comedy. I also disagree with the idea it requires a lack of empathy. Spider-Man has been doing cringe comedy for decades and Charlie Brown's life is suffering. I also like 80% of the comedy this episode.
I mean, the show makes it clear they were setting up an arc for Mariner that she's a self-sabotaginfg loser with her own flaws. Someone who is covering for her unwillingness to succeed by insisting its everyone else who is flawed and being an Ensign is desirable rather than a failure. It's not even subtext.Mabus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:18 pm What's the point of Mariner/Boimler's toxic relationship? Is the show gonna crumble into dust if Mariner would stop being such an unpleasant character? Cause she's anything but the heart of the show. If anything she's an anti-heart, one of vacuum of misery and unpleasantness.
On this end, I think that makes some fan assumptions that aren't born out by Trek rather than something that is the flaw here. We've seen numerous starships of inferior quality (the good old Miranda class) and the absolute distinction of "old ships" vs. "super hot new ships" among Trek so that there is a definite quality advantage.As a side note, the whole TR-88 subplot is a waste of time. There's absolutely no reason why the Cerritos can't update their old tools to the latest tech since they all have replicators, and the whole "this is a less competent ship so their technology is subpar" is just lazy writing, as replicator have never been shown to vary in quality, especially since this happens after the Dominion War when Starfleet would have had to upgrade their entire fleet.
And there's no reason why the TR-88 cant' be replicated, since that defeats the entire purpose of having adaptable technology. If anything, it would have been funnier had at the end of the episode the titular ship got the TR-88s, as another reason why the Cerritos had a crew exchange with the Vancouver was to update their systems to the latest version, with Tendi and Rutherford being so overworked didn't realize that and instead tried everything to get their hands on the new tech, which would have been funnier.
"You know we too have replicators, right? That can replicate stuff, right?" - Boimler, probably
That's kind of the underlying point of the episode. And one that becomes a bit clearer as the series goes on. Nobody wants to be friends with her. Boimler is, in spite of their tortuous and toxic relationship, her best friend.Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:22 am No sane mind would be interested in someone with Mariner's personality anyways, except if a masochist maybe. But then again, nobody would want to be friends with her either, given she's just a collosal arsehole which remains at her rank purely because she's afraid to not be the top dog anymore, if promoted.
Yeah, the Star Trek movie parody makes it clear that Mariner was deeply-deeply flawed and the producers knew this.griffeytrek wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:35 pm
That's kind of the underlying point of the episode. And one that becomes a bit clearer as the series goes on. Nobody wants to be friends with her. Boimler is, in spite of their tortuous and toxic relationship, her best friend.
And the weird thing is, in spite of how toxic they are together. They do somehow start to slowly bring out the best in each other. Not romantically. But they start to bring each other out of their carefully constructed mental safe spaces and as a result they start becoming better officers. Mariner rips Boimler off his neurotic pedestal of by the book textbook perfection and forces him to live dangerously. And in doing so seasons him with the actual practical skills and confidence he is so clearly lacking. And Mariner starts to creep out from her dark ("sentient") cavern of self destructive behaviors that she uses to push everything away. Mind you they are still complete assholes with a seemingly toxic relationship. But it kind of works.
It is easy to write, second easiest after slapstick (which is why slapstick is often the preceding gag), but it makes the writer feel clever and superior in writing it.
I suspect it appeals to happy people.
Interesting, because I couldn't stand The Office. Yes, I find cringe comedy just unpleasant, not remotely humerous. There's a line somewhere that it crosses, like the line between a bit of leg-pulling (generally a positive thing IMO, can't stand the type of idiot who says "there's no such thing as banter") and genuine nastiness.stryke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:04 pmI suspect it appeals to happy people.
A theory that I suspect has many many holes in it, and I'm sure isn't universally true in the slightest. However it was one I came too when I was in a group of friends who all seemed to be a in a better place than I was at the time. This lot GUSHED over the British Office and Peek Show. These for those who aren't familiar with them they're both peak non-stop cringe and I found them far too familiar to be comfortable.
Off the top of my head, I'd say cringe humor in comedy is the same as the jump-scare in horror: It's used often because it's cheap and easy.
There seems to be a running gag on this show which runs counter to both common sense and what we've seen happen on the previous shows, which is that replicators aren't all programmed equally for no discernible reason other than to create class divides, both on the ship and between ships. This show has doubled-down on the weird 90s-era pre-wifi writer limitations of PADDs not all having access to the same files instead of fixing that oversight.Mabus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:18 pm As a side note, the whole TR-88 subplot is a waste of time. There's absolutely no reason why the Cerritos can't update their old tools to the latest tech since they all have replicators, and the whole "this is a less competent ship so their technology is subpar" is just lazy writing, as replicator have never been shown to vary in quality,
Listen man, I wouldn't trust Ensigns with Replicators. Why would you?Deledrius wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:54 pm There seems to be a running gag on this show which runs counter to both common sense and what we've seen happen on the previous shows, which is that replicators aren't all programmed equally for no discernible reason other than to create class divides, both on the ship and between ships. This show has doubled-down on the weird 90s-era pre-wifi writer limitations of PADDs not all having access to the same files instead of fixing that oversight.
