The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I mean it might be different factions of the rich with their own agendas, but objectively the US is an authoritarian government that does not answer to the people. The popularity of legislation has no correlation with whether or not it is implemented.

One of the problems with Left leaning intellectualisa, such as myself, is we tend to assume the people want what we want and what is "smart" and that there is some sort of sinister cabal like the Republicans or conservative democrats who are blocking it.

When, in fact, moderate and anti-progressive voters exist in huge numbers.

Mind you, "everyone is all the same" is a policy I hate because it encourages apathy and lack of reform.

I don't think it's a sinister cabal, I think it's class interest. Because the barriers of entry to political office are fairly high and require connections, it tends to be the rich who then make laws that favor the rich.

Additionally Congressional deadlock makes it much easier to for many people that only have a few conservative bugbear to vote Republican despite on aggregate not really liking Republican policy because policy doesn't get passed. And on the other side there is no reason to vote for Democrats who promise what they want because the promises are rarely delivered.

A good example of this is not only do 2/3 of Americans want pot legalized, but a majority of Republicans want it legalized, but despite this neither party is working on what should be a slam dunk despite Biden explicitly having the decriminalization of marijuana as part of his platform. Another example would be the 15 dollar minimum wage which won in Florida via referendum even as Biden lost the state despite the Republicans being against it and the Democrats nominally being for it.

That sounds about right to me. Also very depressing.

[Frustration]

When, in fact, moderate and anti-progressive voters exist in huge numbers.

Not to pick on your specifically, CharlesPhipps, but your use of that term opens the door to discussion:

What a self-serving and corrupt thing that label is: "progressive". It claims for the positions it's applied to an inherent virtue, and to the positions it's not applied to an inherent deficiency, even depravity.

Yet, if you look at history, it's been attached to every imaginable form of bigotry, cruelty, injustice, oppression, theft, and corruption. It ought to be considered a slur whose use makes people feel vaguely unclean.

[phantom000]

More foreign volunteers, 16,000 are said to have volunteered, how many have arrived is unclear at the moment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/ ... c_news_web

"There was a Finnish guy there too, and he was like, 'I just want to kill Russians.'"

Makes me think of David O'hare in Braveheart.

"If I fight for you will I get a chance to kill English?"

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Chuck went over this in his Voyager Death Penalty episode, but the people are most closely represented by each individual US state.

That's really not true. Not only can states be thoroughly Gerrymandered to the point that in Michigan the Republicans got 60% of state senate seats despite the democrats got a majority of the votes in the State Senate races, but many states specifically don't pay a living wage to state representatives and senators as to make it so only the rich can afford to be one.

You also have massive voter suppression efforts in every single red state in the country because they know they do not represent the people of thier state.

And those are arguments I'm making with the assumption that representative democracy is actually functional and not a giant scam to keep the people at each others throats while the oligrlarchs rob us blind.

You're talking about Congress. I'm talking about governors. They each represent the people of their state much further than the federal government does.

[CharlesPhipps]

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html

Outside documentation currently lists the Ukrainians inflicting a 3-1 ratio of inflicted equipment loss. The Russians failure to actually modernize their army and instead massively graft and embezzle has never been more evident now. Unfortunately, 3 Russian vehicles for every Ukrainian one is not sufficient to defeat Russia given the disparity of their forces. The potential catastrophic effects of cutting off food supplies to the cities is also something that must be prevented for any successful resistance. At this point, the EU and USA continuing to supply the Ukrainians with war material to continue to pound the Russians is necessary for their continued polity survival.

The biggest advantage the Ukraine possesses is a mixture of terrain and their choice to continue attacking Russian supply lines rather than choosing to actively engage. They have focused on halting the Russian advance and hoping this will favor them in the long term. How long they can keep this up is anyone's guess.

[Beastro]

That's not how nukes are used in today's strategic environment.

Your statement is true, until the moment some nation decides to use them in vengeance as a Scorched Earth technique. "If we can't have Ukraine, no one will!"

It would indeed drag things down very quickly. But I can imagine some madman figuring that the world wouldn't be willing to risk a large-scale nuclear war in response, and being both petty and vicious enough to think it worthwhile.

Losing the Ukraine for now doesn't preclude trying against down the line.

The Ukraine will always be of strategic value to Russia given their geography. Doing such a thing if only to turn the place to ashes doesn't make sense, and no, saying the Russians are crazy isn't a valid opt out here. They are be grossly incompetent, but a lot of what they do is deliberate and the only question is why they are doing it (which may simply be to appear crazy).

[Draco Dracul]

Chuck went over this in his Voyager Death Penalty episode, but the people are most closely represented by each individual US state.

That's really not true. Not only can states be thoroughly Gerrymandered to the point that in Michigan the Republicans got 60% of state senate seats despite the democrats got a majority of the votes in the State Senate races, but many states specifically don't pay a living wage to state representatives and senators as to make it so only the rich can afford to be one.

You also have massive voter suppression efforts in every single red state in the country because they know they do not represent the people of thier state.

And those are arguments I'm making with the assumption that representative democracy is actually functional and not a giant scam to keep the people at each others throats while the oligrlarchs rob us blind.

You're talking about Congress. I'm talking about governors. They each represent the people of their state much further than the federal government does.

I'm not talking about Congress, I'm talking about the state legislatures. Because State Legislatures set their own districts, not just Congress's districts.

[Draco Dracul]

That's not how nukes are used in today's strategic environment.

Your statement is true, until the moment some nation decides to use them in vengeance as a Scorched Earth technique. "If we can't have Ukraine, no one will!"

It would indeed drag things down very quickly. But I can imagine some madman figuring that the world wouldn't be willing to risk a large-scale nuclear war in response, and being both petty and vicious enough to think it worthwhile.

Losing the Ukraine for now doesn't preclude trying against down the line.

The Ukraine will always be of strategic value to Russia given their geography. Doing such a thing if only to turn the place to ashes doesn't make sense, and no, saying the Russians are crazy isn't a valid opt out here. They are be grossly incompetent, but a lot of what they do is deliberate and the only question is why they are doing it (which may simply be to appear crazy).

It probably does because their economy is going to be almost completely destroyed. And even if China and India agree to deal with them, it will take years for the infrastructure for that to be build as all their current infrastructure is built towards moving gas and oil to the rest of Europe.

[CharlesPhipps]

A supposed whistlerblower has said Putin has considered doing a limited nuclear use to intimidate Ukraine into compliance.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

When, in fact, moderate and anti-progressive voters exist in huge numbers.

Not to pick on your specifically, CharlesPhipps, but your use of that term opens the door to discussion:

What a self-serving and corrupt thing that label is: "progressive". It claims for the positions it's applied to an inherent virtue, and to the positions it's not applied to an inherent deficiency, even depravity.

Yet, if you look at history, it's been attached to every imaginable form of bigotry, cruelty, injustice, oppression, theft, and corruption. It ought to be considered a slur whose use makes people feel vaguely unclean.

Really? When? Because the worst I've seen of it is use as an empty buzzword.