The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Guys Guys, Putin is not like a complete moron. I'm just guessing. I have a feeling he did not open up Russia's stomach to show the world its own gut on the table.

While Putin's skill at manipulating politics is something that was impressive up until this point, one should note the truism of war: you only have to make one mistake. In this case, he doesn't want to retreat as a matter of pride.

And on the other end of that you have to consider the more sensible of outcomes that he might be relying on that are still prospective to the people that run Russia amidst the world scene.

The fall of Ukraine to the west might have been seen as inevitable, and the power grab of the chemical production region along the border could be partially fulfilled by the time Russian forces subside for either diplomatic or receding measures.

[Madner Kami]

There's reports also the Russian language part of the country has also been...reevaluating their previous support.

That is very much the case. The first thing that happened in a border-village near Charkiv for example, after the mayor immediatly opened the village to the russians (arguably the sensible thing to do at the time), was spontaneous protests at the local government building (a story that repeats itself over and over again up to the level, that Putin allegedly told his commanders, to "take the gloves off" earlier this week (as was described by one of his generals over an open comm-channel, which was naturally intercepted...). Similarly the story of Mariupol. Putin fanboys can pretend as much as they like, but the 1,500 Nazis of the Azov Batallion and roughly 2,000 regular soldiers aren't going to be able to hold the city against the will of the besieged population and 14,000 russian troops and yet, here they ares still, one month later...
Sure, you're always going to find someone who's unhappy and wants the Russians to win (and to a degree, I wouldn't be unhappy if the Russians win Mariupol, removing the Azov Batallion from the table), but fuck me, jews are fighting in the batallion's ranks... Let that sink in for a moment...

(using Google Translate)

[...]

"Azov" and the Jews

Despite loud accusations against Azov and other nationalist organizations regarding anti-Semitism, representatives of the Jewish community of Ukraine serve in them and they are assisted.

One of the most famous examples is Natan Khazin, the commander of the so-called "Jewish Hundred" during the Euromaidan.

He claimed that he did not see significant manifestations of anti-Semitism during the Maidan.

He and his comrades-in-arms jokingly called themselves "Jewish Bandera" and also stylized the red and black flag of the UPA, adding the Star of David to it.
hazin

image copyrightNatan Chazin
caption to photo,

The head of the so-called "Jewish Hundred" Natan Khazin actively helps the Ukrainian army

It is significant that Mr. Khazin himself called himself one of the founders of the Azov battalion.

Since the beginning of the war in Donbas, he has been actively helping the Ukrainian military as a volunteer.

It is also known that in the Ukrainian volunteer army, created on the basis of the "Right Sector" in the Donbass, there was a separate Jewish unit.

It included about 20 fighters of Jewish origin, who even created their own field synagogue.

“It is impossible to say that anti-Semitism does not exist in Ukraine at all, but the level that is being talked about in the West does not correspond to reality,” Natan Khazin told BBC News Ukraine.

He notes that everyday anti-Semitism was, is and will be, it should be recognized, but its level "cannot be compared with what is happening in this area in Europe."

"I can say that, despite the difficult situation in Ukraine and the war, the level of anti-Semitism is not growing. Someone in the West simply does not understand the real state of affairs in Ukraine in this area," Mr. Khazin believes.

Against this background, the study of the American Pew Research Center was indicative. The researchers asked residents of Central and Eastern European countries whether they want to see Jews as citizens of their state.

Among all the countries where the survey was conducted, the level of negative perception of Jews in Ukraine was the lowest - 5%.

For example, in Russia this figure was 14%, in Poland - 18%, and in Romania - 23%.

Nazan Khazin, an actual rabbi and ex IDF-soldier (Isreali Defense Force), sitting under the flag of the Azov Battalion carrying the Star of David (he and his comrades are using it as a field-insignia as well). Make no mistake! Azovs are Nazis, but ukrainian Naziism primarily defines itself over it's anti-russianism and nationalism. There's anti-semitism there, but there're way more important things for them.
You wanna know which ukrainian Nazis really have a problem with Jews? The pro-russian nazi groups. Think about that... This also reflects nicely in how Russians seem to interpret the term "Nazi". For pretty much everyone in the West, Naziism is front-loaded with it's anti-semitism. For Russians, "Nazi" mainly translates to "Hates Russians". Read the entire "Denazification"-bullshit under this pretext...

The really funny thing is, that Russia's war created a new nation there. Ukraine was caught between a lot of incompatible groups, each wanting something that the others couldn't or wouldn't give. If Russia hadn't annexed the Crimean Peninsula, if Russia hadn't kept the Donbas-conflict going or incited it, Ukraine would have sooner or later split up and be torn apart, with everything east of the Dniepr going to Russia and everything West of it, going to Europe. Instead, nobody wants to join Russia, except the complete morons who can't think of themselves as being part of this new, reborn nation.

[Frustration]

However what just about all wars have demonstrated is that even if you can defeat a military force you can't hold a country against a population who doesn't want you there.

And no one in the modern world wants to resort to the solution of the ancient world, which was to raze opponents to the ground and sow their fields with salt. The reaction from the rest of the world would be too great, no matter how effective or how necessary scorched earth tactics would be.

[Riedquat]

Guys Guys, Putin is not like a complete moron. I'm just guessing. I have a feeling he did not open up Russia's stomach to show the world its own gut on the table.

While Putin's skill at manipulating politics is something that was impressive up until this point, one should note the truism of war: you only have to make one mistake. In this case, he doesn't want to retreat as a matter of pride.

And on the other end of that you have to consider the more sensible of outcomes that he might be relying on that are still prospective to the people that run Russia amidst the world scene.

The fall of Ukraine to the west might have been seen as inevitable, and the power grab of the chemical production region along the border could be partially fulfilled by the time Russian forces subside for either diplomatic or receding measures.

You need to remember that we're dealing with someone who's ego appears to be off the chart, and who has an incredibly distorted view of what the world actually is thanks to having zero tolerance of hearing any opinions or facts that aren't in 100% agreement with his prejudices and ideals. "Sensible" is a hard thing to square with such a fvcked-up excuse of a human being. Putin's a rabid animal who could very easily infect the entire world.

[Riedquat]

However what just about all wars have demonstrated is that even if you can defeat a military force you can't hold a country against a population who doesn't want you there.

And no one in the modern world wants to resort to the solution of the ancient world, which was to raze opponents to the ground and sow their fields with salt. The reaction from the rest of the world would be too great, no matter how effective or how necessary scorched earth tactics would be.

No-one other than Vladimir Putin and a few random religious zealots anyway. Someone with a distorted view of their own greatness, an expectation that others will always back down in the end because they're "weak", and who might regard as taking everyone down with them as a preferable second place to admitting defeat...

[CharlesPhipps]

And no one in the modern world wants to resort to the solution of the ancient world, which was to raze opponents to the ground and sow their fields with salt. The reaction from the rest of the world would be too great, no matter how effective or how necessary scorched earth tactics would be.

I mean...literally we've seen this done by many many dictators in the past 20 years.

Assad

China's desire to wipe out Uyghur culture

The Taliban

The Burmer genocides of Muslims

In the Nineties, I remember the Bosnian genocides as a formative idea

Not to mention the atrocities in Darfur

The modern world is arguably much more inclined to annihilation than the ancient world

[Frustration]

China's treatment of the Uighur is a poor example. They're being tortured, traumatized, persecuted, and imprisoned. But they're not being shot down like dogs in the street and their land poisoned for generations.

Think the Romans, or Genghis Khan's Mongols. Think pyramids of human ears, and total depopulation.

[hammerofglass]

ISIS and the Yazidis, that was just a few years ago.

[CharlesPhipps]

China's treatment of the Uighur is a poor example. They're being tortured, traumatized, persecuted, and imprisoned. But they're not being shot down like dogs in the street and their land poisoned for generations.

It is an organized attempt to eradicate them as a culture while keeping their bodies alive.

Think the Romans, or Genghis Khan's Mongols. Think pyramids of human ears, and total depopulation.

The Romans only did that to Carthage and were actually people who generally didn't engage in genocide, primarily because the slave trade and tribute were their aims.

The Mongols were also using terror as a tactic of war as they were famous for their mercy if you did surrender outright.

[Riedquat]

It's a bit hard to compare with historical examples, both because with the technology now available it's far easier to carry out genocide, and far easier to hear about it happening.