Would TNG Have Lasted Minus Picard?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think the Enterprise with Riker as captain in Parallels was probably where the show was supposed to end up, as that Picard died after being captured by the Borg around Wolf 359.

I am sure that was brought up in the writers meeting for that episode. Or probably alreasy thought up.

Yeah I can see someone at the water pick going "hey you know that's kind of like if Picard had died in BoBW, like they said in the documentary" With the coworker going "yeah w/ever noob."

[McAvoy]

I think the Enterprise with Riker as captain in Parallels was probably where the show was supposed to end up, as that Picard died after being captured by the Borg around Wolf 359.

I am sure that was brought up in the writers meeting for that episode. Or probably alreasy thought up.

Yeah I can see someone at the water pick going "hey you know that's kind of like if Picard had died in BoBW, like they said in the documentary" With the coworker going "yeah w/ever noob."

Yeah it was such an obvious for the episode to do. Hell even if the Borg overran the Federation was obvious.

Everything else was just tweaks.

[clearspira]

Well... I think its worth noting that season 3 of TNG was the first true season of TNG as it is remembered today. Season 1-2 Picard was a straight up stuffy, self-righteous prick. I've seen interviews with Sirtis that pretty much paints Stewart as a stuffy, self-righteous prick at the time too which was coming off in his acting. Apparently he was very "FOR THE CRAFT, MARINA, NO JOKING AROUND. THIS IS ART." The rest of the cast had to work the rod out of his ass.

Anyway, point is, I think if Picard died in season 2 it wouldn't have mattered. Chuck has noted before that often Riker seemed to be the star of the piece anyway and what we would have had would be a continuation of that. Maybe even Riker would have become the messiah that Q wanted him to be.

Season 3 though... it gets a bit iffy. TNG was coming onto its own and the audience was starting to warm to these characters. I think it would have been a bit like season 3 and 4 of Blake 7. Not bad, Avon and Villa are still there just as Riker and Data are still there, but its missing a crucial element.

The films would have been massively different. Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis straight up could not work. First Contact could though... ooh, possibilities there. Perhaps - just spitballing here - Locutus could have returned as the equivalent of the Borg Queen. We do think in three dimensional terms after all.

[Durandal_1707]

I think the Enterprise with Riker as captain in Parallels was probably where the show was supposed to end up, as that Picard died after being captured by the Borg around Wolf 359.

Yeah, if DS9 managed to be controversial for not being true enough to "Gene's vision", I highly doubt TNG was ever going to end with a straight-up Borg apocalypse.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think the Enterprise with Riker as captain in Parallels was probably where the show was supposed to end up, as that Picard died after being captured by the Borg around Wolf 359.

I am sure that was brought up in the writers meeting for that episode. Or probably alreasy thought up.

Yeah I can see someone at the water pick going "hey you know that's kind of like if Picard had died in BoBW, like they said in the documentary" With the coworker going "yeah w/ever noob."

Yeah it was such an obvious for the episode to do. Hell even if the Borg overran the Federation was obvious.

Everything else was just tweaks.

I think the Enterprise with Riker as captain in Parallels was probably where the show was supposed to end up, as that Picard died after being captured by the Borg around Wolf 359.

Yeah, if DS9 managed to be controversial for not being true enough to "Gene's vision", I highly doubt TNG was ever going to end with a straight-up Borg apocalypse.

The borg apocalypse only happened to one ship with Riker as captain. The last ship that protagonist Worf was on was a different ship commanded by Riker.

[McAvoy]

Well... I think its worth noting that season 3 of TNG was the first true season of TNG as it is remembered today. Season 1-2 Picard was a straight up stuffy, self-righteous prick. I've seen interviews with Sirtis that pretty much paints Stewart as a stuffy, self-righteous prick at the time too which was coming off in his acting. Apparently he was very "FOR THE CRAFT, MARINA, NO JOKING AROUND. THIS IS ART." The rest of the cast had to work the rod out of his ass.

Anyway, point is, I think if Picard died in season 2 it wouldn't have mattered. Chuck has noted before that often Riker seemed to be the star of the piece anyway and what we would have had would be a continuation of that. Maybe even Riker would have become the messiah that Q wanted him to be.

Season 3 though... it gets a bit iffy. TNG was coming onto its own and the audience was starting to warm to these characters. I think it would have been a bit like season 3 and 4 of Blake 7. Not bad, Avon and Villa are still there just as Riker and Data are still there, but its missing a crucial element.

The films would have been massively different. Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis straight up could not work. First Contact could though... ooh, possibilities there. Perhaps - just spitballing here - Locutus could have returned as the equivalent of the Borg Queen. We do think in three dimensional terms after all.

I said pretty much this myself. We are analyzing TNG in hindsight because we know how TNG became for four more seasons of Picard as captain plus the movies. At the end of season 3, beginning of season 4 we only got one season of truly good Trek with Picard more relaxed.

[Meushell]

I think it would have worked. Riker would have been better developed, changing now that he was captain. He’d probably try to imitate Picard, then would come into the role on his own.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think it would have worked. Riker would have been better developed, changing now that he was captain. He’d probably try to imitate Picard, then would come into the role on his own.

^This guy gets it.

Riker would have probably been written to be in more conflicting situations whereas Picard is a human abacus that figures everything else as it comes along. And Picard wasn't bad at it either. He pulled off a whole Die Hard on the Enterprise episode.

[McAvoy]

I think it would have worked. Riker would have been better developed, changing now that he was captain. He’d probably try to imitate Picard, then would come into the role on his own.

^This guy gets it.

Riker would have probably been written to be in more conflicting situations whereas Picard is a human abacus that figures everything else as it comes along. And Picard wasn't bad at it either. He pulled off a whole Die Hard on the Enterprise episode.

I am not sure.

He would certainly be less Riker-ish, but who would be his XO? Shelby? Data?

Both of those characters are totally different than the XO Riker stories and episodes we got.

[clearspira]

I think it would have worked. Riker would have been better developed, changing now that he was captain. He’d probably try to imitate Picard, then would come into the role on his own.

^This guy gets it.

Riker would have probably been written to be in more conflicting situations whereas Picard is a human abacus that figures everything else as it comes along. And Picard wasn't bad at it either. He pulled off a whole Die Hard on the Enterprise episode.

I am not sure.

He would certainly be less Riker-ish, but who would be his XO? Shelby? Data?

Both of those characters are totally different than the XO Riker stories and episodes we got.

Elizabeth Dennehy who played Shelby had a very lacklustre career after TNG according to IMDB so she probably could have been convinced to stay. And this probably wouldn't have been a bad thing as TNG struggled hard for decent female characters. Yar was incompetent, Troi was incompetent, Guinan was OK but was a classic ''Magical Negro'' as TVTropes calls it. She wasn't a character so much as a plot device. That leaves Crusher and Ro - and Ro was came in both late and wasn't there for long.

Beyond that though it probably would have been Data as XO which may actually have given Wesley a promotion? I know Wil Wheaton quit, but he seemed to come back enough to convince me that he just got annoyed at playing the Wunderkind. If he actually had a fleshed out role he may have stayed. And as I'm convinced that the initial story for Riker was that he would have become a human Q, Wesley and the Traveller would have played a role in that.