ENT - Damaged

[Riedquat]

People also turn out to like working and being useful.

They just don't like working trivialities.

Or doing the same thing day in, day out. An improving world is one that gets the balance right rather than aiming for extremes. So aiming for not having to work as much, that could do it, but instead people think of a world where they don't have to work at all. The latter sounds appealing as Monday morning looms but I agree people like working and being useful, so none of that wouldn't be great.

[Fianna]

Oh, we should absolutely strive for a world where no one has to work. That doesn't mean no longer doing work; it's just the "work" would now be more akin to "hobby".

[clearspira]

Pa Sisko's cafe or Picard's wine seems like the sort of thing. And it is pretty established that replicated food doesn't taste like the real thing so I guess chef food would still be a luxury. Dunno how he's getting the ingredients for free though. We see Picard tending his grapes, but who is supplying Pa with the ingredients for his creole?

Quark is an interesting case. I always wondered how the Feds on DS9 use his facilities. Do they get paid in latinum or credits or something? If so, what is backing that up? latinum can't be replicated. That's why its valuable.

[clearspira]

https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inco ... conomy.htm

The always great Ex Astris Scientia has an article on the economy of the Federation. It really doesn't seem as if ''the Federation is moneyless'' was part of Gene's original concept. Most of the inconsistencies seem to come from TOS and early TNG. Even he seemed to be aware that there will always be goods and services that require more than just good vibes.

The biggest evidence that money must exist in some form comes from PICARD. A show with vast cities on Earth that look straight out of the 21st century that are emblazoned with advertising. Pa Sisko's cafe can be dismissed as a hobby, but can a vast advertising industry for FREE goods really be justified?

I think there is only one conclusion imo: You get everything that you NEED for free, not the stuff that you WANT. Post-scarcity doesn't actually mean post-scarcity. What if you want yourself a vineyard like Picard has got for example? We can't all have that because there is only so much France.

[Nealithi]

Didn't the TOS episode Mudd's Women mention the dilithium miners were rich because of their jobs and could afford more?

[CrypticMirror]

Didn't the TOS episode Mudd's Women mention the dilithium miners were rich because of their jobs and could afford more?

It has already been established that the 23rdC was a transitional time where money was still occasionally used, but was fast losing all traction. The current showrunners are just peabrains who are too lazy to try and follow that thread and find using 21stC economics an easy and effort free writing style. Bad writing, and lack of imagination. That last one is probably the biggest sin, if you are into SFF then the ability to imagine a world different and better than our own is a must and anyone who can't, who is trapped by modern pre-conceived notions, needs to pipe down.

[Frustration]

Pa Sisko's cafe or Picard's wine seems like the sort of thing. And it is pretty established that replicated food doesn't taste like the real thing

It's long been canon that some replicated foods taste different; it's part of the reason you can't replicate living things, the biochemistry is subtly wrong. There are even some foods the replicator isn't allowed to make because they come out poisonous.

[CharlesPhipps]

Oh, we should absolutely strive for a world where no one has to work. That doesn't mean no longer doing work; it's just the "work" would now be more akin to "hobby".

There was a Youtube essay on the "Cult of Work" where the author was annoyed at the American idea that many people define themselves by the principle that they contribute to society. For me, that's a virtue and I imagine plenty of people feel the same way.

We all have a desire for something more and even without spiritual elements, a lot of people desire to contribute rather than just take.

[Nealithi]

Didn't the TOS episode Mudd's Women mention the dilithium miners were rich because of their jobs and could afford more?

It has already been established that the 23rdC was a transitional time where money was still occasionally used, but was fast losing all traction. The current showrunners are just peabrains who are too lazy to try and follow that thread and find using 21stC economics an easy and effort free writing style. Bad writing, and lack of imagination. That last one is probably the biggest sin, if you are into SFF then the ability to imagine a world different and better than our own is a must and anyone who can't, who is trapped by modern pre-conceived notions, needs to pipe down.

Two clarifications please. What is SFF? And are you making an accusation against me and telling to shut up?

[CrypticMirror]

SFF is Science/Speculative Fiction and Fantasy, and it was more a general point than directed at you personally.