Lower Decks - Second Contact

[stellar_coyote]

To me, it feels like they were trying to make Mariner in the same vein as Henchmen's 21 and 24 from The Venture Bros., specifically from the episode "The Lepidopterists." Where the two of them are fully aware of the ins and outs of the wacky universe they live in and have been coasting by on being the plucky comic relief. So they act like lazy jackasses to those who do take things seriously (Henchmen 1 in this case).
But that episode was set near the end of season 3 and we've seen their progress from incompetent, nameless henchmen that manage to survive by sheer luck to the "those two guys" who help flesh out the villains side. And then just a few episodes later everything changes with the death of 24 and because of that 21 is forced to grow up and mature while still remaining his geeky self.

Mariner isn't shown to be experienced, the writers want us to take her at her word that she knows best even while acting like a lazy jackass. If they just gave us a montage of Mariner surviving the weekly crises found on Trek: captains making stupid decisions in the name of discovery, redshirts dying one minute in on a new planet, holograms going on the fritz and attacking people etc. That would help explain her approach to dealing with problems, pull a technobabble solution out of your ass and hope for the best. It would also help explain her attitude as well, she's jaded about the idealism of Star Fleet because she knows the mission of seeking out new life and new civilizations often comes at the cost of the lives of the lower decks crew while the top brass remain unscathed. So she wants Boimler to lighten up and stop being a stickler for the rules, because the rules will more often than not, get you killed.

But we don't have that.

[CharlesPhipps]

And the end result is two very different characters who you can believe do actually get along with each other and who both have something useful to add, unlike here.

Obviously I don't know why things changed but I'm glad that they recognised fairly quickly that they needed to and made the changes.

In this case, I don't think it was anything particularly major, just them working out the kinks of who they wanted the characters to be and what they wanted the show to be. It was a little too mean-spirited at the start and they made the "Barclay mistake" with Boimler. Specifically, Barclay was meant to be vaguely unlikable but instead became WILDLY AND INCREDIBLY POPULAR because he resonated with fans so extremely with his social awkwardness and (minor) flaws.

Making Boimler the butt monkey because they assumed people would enjoy taking down the smart ass in the room was a poor decision because, well, Star Trek fans are going to resonate with the awkward nerdy kid. Well, when they aren't making him the greatest Gary Stu ever like a certain other TNG character's poor reception showed.

I will say that some of Mariner's unlikability was deliberate though as "Crisis Point" shows that she was meant to go through an arc. That she's not someone who DOES have everything figured out and quite a bit of her bravado is unearned.

An early character check moment is when Ransom disables her and takes down the baddie because, yes, HE is the Commander and it is his job to protect his subordinates. NOT hers.

Mariner isn't shown to be experienced, the writers want us to take her at her word that she knows best even while acting like a lazy jackass. If they just gave us a montage of Mariner surviving the weekly crises found on Trek: captains making stupid decisions in the name of discovery, redshirts dying one minute in on a new planet, holograms going on the fritz and attacking people etc. That would help explain her approach to dealing with problems, pull a technobabble solution out of your ass and hope for the best. It would also help explain her attitude as well, she's jaded about the idealism of Star Fleet because she knows the mission of seeking out new life and new civilizations often comes at the cost of the lives of the lower decks crew while the top brass remain unscathed. So she wants Boimler to lighten up and stop being a stickler for the rules, because the rules will more often than not, get you killed.

But we don't have that.

I think the moment Mariner became tolerable for a lot of fans was "Cupid's Errant Arrow" when we got the flashback to Deep Space Nine and she watches her best friend eaten alive by a sex monster before her eyes. It was the first moment that actually managed to frame Mariner as anything other than incredibly inconsistent.

It establishes:

* Mariner has been in Starfleet long enough to have served on multiple ships and wear the TNG movie uniforms.

* Mariner once had FABULOUS hair.

* Mariner has, indeed, seen some horrifying things that would leave you deeply traumatized.

It recontextualizes that, in fact, she is not being mean for the sake of mean but is legitimately paranoid about the Trekverse's many dangers.

[Riedquat]

... So she wants Boimler to lighten up and stop being a stickler for the rules, because the rules will more often than not, get you killed.

But we don't have that.

No, we don't have that, we have someone behaving in such a reckless way that she should be an illustration of why the rules are there in the first place. More often than not not following the rules will get you killed. We're not even getting an example of someone with good judgment who had the wherewithall to know when to bend or break them, she doesn't even get as far as "rules are there to make you think before breaking them."

[stryke]

Everything CharlesPhipps says above is spot on.

Only thing I'll add is that there's a fairly common theory/headcanon is that Marriner was one of the kids on the Enterprise D for all of TNG and her character arc is an exploration of how that might have fucked them up when they got older.

[CharlesPhipps]

=
Worf runs Troi through with a Be'Leth because he was drunkenly swinging it recklessly through a corridor.
Worf forces Troi to view his porn stash of naked women exercising.
Worf suggests that Troi take off her pants.
Worf strips nearly naked to battle an alien.
Worf is indifferent to any suffering that inflicted on Troi thanks to his actions.

Having fun yet?

You've described Quagmire from Family Guy.

Also, over on THE ORVILLE, we have Bortus who has an entire episode devoted to his addiction to porn.

Which is funny because he IS basically Worf.

Everything CharlesPhipps says above is spot on.

Only thing I'll add is that there's a fairly common theory/headcanon is that Marriner was one of the kids on the Enterprise D for all of TNG and her character arc is an exploration of how that might have fucked them up when they got older.

I wish they had reconfirmed that because it would also make her friendship with Riker and interest in all things Klingon make more sense. They may be holding that button because its a rather awkward retcon but, ironically, makes a lot more sense than, "Burnham is Spock's sister."

There's a difference also between, "Unknown Family" and "was part of the 1000 or so crew members of the ship."

[stryke]

I wish they had reconfirmed that because it would also make her friendship with Riker and interest in all things Klingon make more sense. They may be holding that button because its a rather awkward retcon but, ironically, makes a lot more sense than, "Burnham is Spock's sister."

I don't think they'll ever confirm it directly, and instead just keep on piling on evidence to back it up so it adds to her character if you get it, and won't effect the current story being told if you don't.

[CharlesPhipps]

Getting back to the episode, there's some inconsistencies that the later show wouldn't have done:

How the Later Show would have done Second Contact

* Boimler wouldn't be interested in the Warp Core. That would be a Rutherford thing. Boimler would be into the Bridge or Captain's Ready Room.

"This is the Ready Room of not only Captain Freeman but Captain Spear and Captain August."

"No one remembers Captain August!"

* Mariner's bisexuality would have made it a nude gym for both sexes and aliens. It would have been like that orgy scene from later in the show but without sexual content.

* Boimler, before his friendship with Mariner, would have absolutely reported Mariner for being drunk and getting him injured. Probably getting her kicked out of Starfleet.

* Which is why Mariner would NOT have been swinging a Bat'leth while drunk as she can certainly hold her liquor and doesn't use weapons while such. If she did hurt Boimler, she would have immediately gotten him to sickbay and been genuinely guilty.

* Mariner would have tried to have wrestle the giant spider to the ground, heroically imitating Kirk, and get her own pratfall as she was gummed up.

* Neither Rutherford or the Trill girl would have ignored the crisis like it was in another cartoon. It would have been played straight with them running away from zombies like Scoobie Doo.

* The officers WOULD have thanked Boimler and Mariner for their discovery.

All in all, it would have been a better episode.

[Fianna]

Seems like Pilot Mariner is basically the worst traits of Dave Lister and Arnold Rimmer rolled together: a professional underachiever with a blithe disrespect for rules or responsibility + an overbearingly smug asshat with an aggressive disrespect for everyone around them.

[CharlesPhipps]

Seems like Pilot Mariner is basically the worst traits of Dave Lister and Arnold Rimmer rolled together: a professional underachiever with a blithe disrespect for rules or responsibility + an overbearingly smug asshat with an aggressive disrespect for everyone around them.

* Is Mariner actually meant to be Boimler's mentor and a more experienced Starfleet officer?
* Is Mariner a reckless careless fool that endangers herself and others?
* Is Mariner meant to be right or wrong about the officers not caring about the Redshirts? (which was the focus of REDSHIRTS by John Scalzi)
* Is Boimler meant to be naive or a smug asshole?

And so on.

It definitely feels like they had a lot of ideas and didn't really know how to juggle them:

Eventually they went with:

* Boimler is a naive newcomer to Starfleet but gradually becoming better and better at handling threats. He's also a lot tougher than he looks, though he isn't as reckless and brave as some Starfleet officers. However, by season 2 he's no longer afraid of most problems due to his experience on the Titan.

Mariner turns out to have been a TERRIBLE mentor versus Riker because Mariner never wanted him to exceed her.

* Mariner has a CRIPPLING fear of command and is actually underachieving due to the responsibility it entails. Her unwillingness to confront this as well as self-centeredness are actual character flaws as she never even bothers to learn Tendi's first name. Her childishness with her mother is also, well, incredible childishness. She's also not as badass as she claims as it turns out she's made up a few of her "war stories."

[Deledrius]

Getting back to the episode, there's some inconsistencies that the later show wouldn't have done:

How the Later Show would have done Second Contact

<<snip>>

All in all, it would have been a better episode.

Great list. I agree 1000%.