The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's all in his own words.

Mr Bush told the audience in the city of Dallas: "Russian elections are rigged, political opponents are imprisoned or otherwise eliminated from participating in the electoral process.

"The result is an absence of checks and balances in Russia, and the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq."

Read bold, underlined, and italicized:

Republican gerrymandering
Guantanamo Bay
Cheney's war

[CharlesPhipps]

Yes, even if I was inclined to be charitable to Bush, his legalization of torture was one of the greatest normalization of evil in the past century.

[CmdrKing]

The sheer staggering apologia for Putin, a Far Right dictator and capitalist oligarch admired as well as supporting the Far Right in other nations, pretty much shows the level of "intellectual" discourse in a lot of academia where it doesn't actually matter about your PRINCIPLES if you are making a point against the United States.

If he's Anti-West, he's good.

Which is like some of the China apologia out there, acting like being pro-democracy and freedom must itself be hypocritical to the point there is no difference between a dictatorship and a democracy.

Weirdly it seems to be the opposite in some ways, they’re reacting to certain stimuli in accordance to their principles then completely failing to follow through on the implications and requirements of their conclusions.

The primary thing I see non-grifters cite in supporting Russia is how news of the invasion has been reported in western media. Which is to say, the western media spent weeks in full Manufacture of Consent mode, followed by following along rather unquestioningly with Ukraine’s own propaganda efforts. For example those I know who oppose US intervention were extremely eager to spread the admission that the Ghost of Kyiv was fictitious, a propaganda move.

So… cool, western media sucks and is publishing a lot of propaganda uncritically. I wouldn’t even dispute that.

The trouble is even when you account for that, Russia’s own accounts of their maneuvers are just hilariously self-serving obvious falsehoods.

Like, Russia verifiably had a line of advance towards Kyiv, Odesa, and Kharkiv, which are well outside the zones Russia was recognizing. They verifiably had faulty equipment and had to retreat from those advances. Whatever equipment the west has sent them, it’s still Ukrainians who’ve done the shooting so any claims that the whole of the country was eager to be a Russian suzerainty are extremely suspect.

Even if we buy into the notion that the ‘Yankee Empire’ is the prime evil of the world and the surest way to topple it is to create other legitimate polls of power, Russia’s clearly not capable of being that pole, ideologically or materially. Like fuck, at least when people stan China there are actual things you can point to they’ve done better than the west that suggest they might be a suitable global hegemon. (I don’t particularly agree, but there exist actual sound arguments!) why you’d shoot yourself in the face going to bat for Russia is pure inability to think about the situation rationally.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Not right now, but it’s unlikely that China would abstain from trade negotiations with them once this whole thing was over.

[Madner Kami]

Not right now, but it’s unlikely that China would abstain from trade negotiations with them once this whole thing was over.

Siberia/Manchuria are of higher interest to China than Taiwan. Taiwan only has a propagandistic value, as any war lasting longer than a few days would demolish the economic value, unlike in Siberia/Manchuria. If Russia ends up falling apart, China will go North and even if Russia survives, China will make an economic landgrab. That is, if China doesn't implode this year or the next as a Resultat from both draconic, suicidal anti-CoViD-measures and the resulting unrest and economic collapse, as well as the housing bubble.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Not right now, but it’s unlikely that China would abstain from trade negotiations with them once this whole thing was over.

Siberia/Manchuria are of higher interest to China than Taiwan. Taiwan only has a propagandistic value, as any war lasting longer than a few days would demolish the economic value, unlike in Siberia/Manchuria. If Russia ends up falling apart, China will go North and even if Russia survives, China will make an economic landgrab. That is, if China doesn't implode this year or the next as a Resultat from both draconic, suicidal anti-CoViD-measures and the resulting unrest and economic collapse, as well as the housing bubble.

Russia might be aligned with China on territorial concessions in exchange for capitulation with its invasion of Ukraine, given everything runs its course in his expectations.

[CmdrKing]

Put another way, there’s no way Russia becomes a pole of power on the international stage after this. What is entirely likely though is that China adds (parts of) Russia to its sphere of influence, the way counties like Vietnam are now. Doubly so if Putin kicks it and the Russian Federation fractures to some degree.

[Frustration]

So there's a reasonable chance that Putin has ultimately caused Russia to lose territory with this little war of his.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So there's a reasonable chance that Putin has ultimately caused Russia to lose territory with this little war of his.

Well yeah, sure, if you put it that way I guess.

[CharlesPhipps]

Henry Kissinger says that due to Russia being such an important part of the global order, the West should force Ukraine to give up territory and bring about a peace settlement. Which, to me, is the clearest sign we should continue on supporting Ukraine since his ability to read the room in foreign affairs is amazingly terrible.

It also shows that apparently every single ex-Cold Warrior longs for the return of the Soviet Union.