Yet Another School Shooting in America
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
Yes they did, they had two choices keep civilian safe or stop the jerk. They weren't able to make the right one.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
I'm not arguing that but rather, that in another situation, this would not necessarily been cowardice.Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:40 pm Yes they did, they had two choices keep civilian safe or stop the jerk. They weren't able to make the right one.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
This is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
I am not arguing that, what do you even think I am trying to say, are you actually reading my comments?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:15 pmThis is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
- hammerofglass
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
You've said it's unreasonable to expect them to risk their lives without a guarantee of success in four different ways. I'm saying it's not.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:52 pmI am not arguing that, what do you even think I am trying to say, are you actually reading my comments?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:15 pmThis is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
...for space is wide, and good friends are too few.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
So, if all the cops died and the shooter was able to murder every single person in the school, unimpeded, because of that, you'd be okay with it?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:18 pmYou've said it's unreasonable to expect them to risk their lives without a guarantee of success in four different ways. I'm saying it's not.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:52 pmI am not arguing that, what do you even think I am trying to say, are you actually reading my comments?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:15 pmThis is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
- hammerofglass
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
The shooter was able to murder as many people as he wanted unimpeded and it was because they didn't intervene. This is a thing that happened in real life. I am not OK with it, are you?Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:25 pmSo, if all the cops died and the shooter was able to murder every single person in the school, unimpeded, because of that, you'd be okay with it?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:18 pmYou've said it's unreasonable to expect them to risk their lives without a guarantee of success in four different ways. I'm saying it's not.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:52 pmI am not arguing that, what do you even think I am trying to say, are you actually reading my comments?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:15 pmThis is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
What scenario are you picturing where he somehow kills a dozen or more people in a shootout and is still standing?
...for space is wide, and good friends are too few.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
He had a military grade weapon and they could have not known where exactly the shooter is, making it easy for the shooter to kill every one of them before they can even try to stop him. And I am not talking about this particular incident, I am asking why people think this is the objectively wrong thing to do in all situations.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 8:13 pmThe shooter was able to murder as many people as he wanted unimpeded and it was because they didn't intervene. This is a thing that happened in real life. I am not OK with it, are you?Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:25 pmSo, if all the cops died and the shooter was able to murder every single person in the school, unimpeded, because of that, you'd be okay with it?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:18 pmYou've said it's unreasonable to expect them to risk their lives without a guarantee of success in four different ways. I'm saying it's not.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:52 pmI am not arguing that, what do you even think I am trying to say, are you actually reading my comments?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:15 pmThis is what's supposed to justify having police. We're always being told cops are heroes. The people who believe it expect them to act like heroes.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmBut this outrage assumes that it's a guarantee that if they went in, most or all of the kids would be saved. This isn't about my loyalty to police, it's about pragmatism.hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:20 pmThat's always the risk. Like I said, if you don't accept it don't carry a gun.Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:42 pmThat wasn't my point. Why should they just get themselves killed and not help anyone because they were killed?hammerofglass wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:16 pm You don't want to take on the duty and responsibility to protect yourself and others at great risk to yourself when the situation calls for it? Then carry a gun, because that's what will be expected of you.
I'm disgusted by the behavior of these officers as much as anyone else but this is what I've been talking about for the past two years, people do have reasons to not like cops but they are letting it become a prejudice that they will cling to even if police solve their issues.
What scenario are you picturing where he somehow kills a dozen or more people in a shootout and is still standing?
Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
Because they didn't do ANYTHING!! They could have called for backup, called Swat, there are other ways they could have handled this instead of standing around.
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Re: Yet Another School Shooting in America
And in this case, you are right, all I am saying is that rushing in blindly without thought for consequences is not the right ting to do in every situation and we shouldn't act like it is.