Is Kylo Ren a Weak Villain? (Films Only)

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The thing is that the trilogy lacks the courage of its convictions. Kylo Ren works exactly for the reasons that John Walker Lindh or an American ISIS recruit is. He has no real reason to become a Galactic Space Nazi but he did so because he's bored or he wants arete or because he hates his parents. Kylo Ren in the first and even second movies is fantastic because the MOMENT that Snoke tells him to ditch the mask, he already is plotting to kill him. He is such a psychopathic monster that it requires almost NOTHING to turn him against his second teacher the way he betrayed his first.

I like the theme of legacy that he exhibits in his reverence for Vader. I'm not sure they were going to portray any actual indifference he had with Leia unfortunately, but it's easy to see how much he abstained from taking to some degree the path of father's side. He wants to be found in the opposite manner that Han doesn't want to be chained down.

[hammerofglass]

Actually he really wasn't wearing some variant of Vader's suit but really a variant of Sith garb from thousands of years ago.

My guess is the costume designer made his outfit look like he's cosplaying Revan on purpose but the writer and director had no idea who that is.

[CharlesPhipps]

Basically, whether you like Kylo Ren or not can be summarized as such:

1. You hate the fact that he's a pathetic wannabe cosplayer with no real motivation to do his evil, a pale imitation of Vader, and a school spree killing murdererous edgelord who destroys all the good works of his parents out of pathetic peak.
2. You love him BECAUSE of #1.
3. You're an Adam Driver fangirl (or boy)

I'm squarely in category #2. People keep bringing up the fact that Kylo Ren is not intimidating and that he doesn't have some grandiose "the ends justify the means philosophy" and I'm like, "Yes, exactly." I want them to lean heavily into the fact that evil is not nuanced or possessed of a deep tragic depth because it isn't.

I like the character a great deal whenever they highlight Kylo Ren is just scum with delusions of eloquence.

Because that happens a lot in the real world and it makes him no less dangerous.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah but the payoff isn't that great.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah but the payoff isn't that great.

I feel like the problem is that they chickened out at the end by redeeming him. I feel like they really needed to fully embrace a Darth Malak-esque ending for Kylo Ren.

"I wanted to be master of the galaxy and ruler of the Sith but in the end...I am nothing."

Instead, he magically turns good.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah but the payoff isn't that great.

I feel like the problem is that they chickened out at the end by redeeming him. I feel like they really needed to fully embrace a Darth Malak-esque ending for Kylo Ren.

"I wanted to be master of the galaxy and ruler of the Sith but in the end...I am nothing."

Instead, he magically turns good.

Nonetheless, the caricature is fitting for the dingo of millennials that sees the world in their hands. I held some years back that he would probably have to do something really undercutting to First Order, but he mainly just turns into a rogue like his father.

[CharlesPhipps]

Nonetheless, the caricature is fitting for the dingo of millennials that sees the world in their hands. I held some years back that he would probably have to do something really undercutting to First Order, but he mainly just turns into a rogue like his father.

Mind you the irony is that Millennials are now in their mid to late thirties.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Nonetheless, the caricature is fitting for the dingo of millennials that sees the world in their hands. I held some years back that he would probably have to do something really undercutting to First Order, but he mainly just turns into a rogue like his father.

Mind you the irony is that Millennials are now in their mid to late thirties.

The initial subset of the generation, yeah.

[CharlesPhipps]

The initial subset of the generation, yeah.

Just find it humorous that it's still meant to be those darn kids.

[clearspira]

Its also true of course that very, very soon it'll be the Millennials who are in charge given how the Boomers are dying off. These sorts of attitudes we complain about are important.