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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:57 pm
I think clearspria regards MeToo and similar movements as predominantly a squad of sjws leveraging socio political power.
Yeah.
The whole point of Me Too was to showcase how many women have been sexually harassed/assaulted. And it included men too.
I am sure there were women out there that felt men shouldn't be included.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:19 amThe whole point of Me Too was to showcase how many women have been sexually harassed/assaulted. And it included men too.
It's funny that you put it this way, because I feel it nicely reflects on how sexual abuse hurled towards men is very much an afterthought for the #metoo-movement, which largely focuses on how women are universal victims:
There has been discussion about what possible roles men may have in the #MeToo movement.[70][71][72] It has been noted that 1 in 6 men have experienced sexual abuse of some sort during their lives and often feel unable to talk about it.[73] Creator Tarana Burke and others have asked men to call out bad behavior when they see it,[71][72] or just spend time quietly listening.[20][74] Some men have expressed the desire to keep a greater distance from women since #MeToo went viral because they do not fully understand what actions might be considered inappropriate.[75][76] For the first few months after #MeToo started trending, many men expressed difficulty in participating in the conversation due to fear of negative consequences, citing examples of men who have been treated negatively after sharing their thoughts about #MeToo.[77]
[...]
Relationship instructor Kasia Urbaniak said the movement is creating its own crisis around masculinity. "There's a reflective questioning about whether they're going to be next and if they’ve ever hurt a woman. There's a level of anger and frustration. If you’ve been doing something wrong but haven't been told, there's an incredible sense of betrayal and it’ll provoke a backlash. I think silence on both sides is incredibly dangerous." Urbaniak says she would like women to be allies of men and to be curious about their experience. "In that alliance there's a lot more power and possibility than there is in men stepping aside and starting to stew."[80]
[...]
Men here, men there, men have to stand up against sexual abusers and so on. Those are the main talking points of the movement. But, if what's said at other points is true, that at least 1 in 6 men have experienced sexual abuse in it's various forms as well, then it's not a problem that needs to be faced by men. It's a societal problem and yet it always comes back to how men have to change their behaviour and police "their own". I mean, remember the Gilette advert?
Yeah, that piece of art and there were more like that. That's what a large number of people percieve from #metoo.
Granted Tarana Burke and others have, at various points of time, come out to say that this movement is not about men absuing women, but people abusing people and included men, but that doesn't change the overall perception of the movement, as it's rarely the silent majority or the leaders of a movement, who define the public perception, but the loudest voices and I feel the loudest voices speak very much in unison and pay lip-service only when being called out for it.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
I think the issue itself at large did center more around male culture and its influence on civic norms, particularly in industrial life, which itself is a part of ordered civil society. Gillette factored into the movement as the toxicity of male pattern behavior notably stemmed from family values. It also happened to be most non-subtle with the message, though I don't think it crossed much of a line.
The movement didn't really cover the intricacies pertaining to women led toxicity in accordance to what MeToo was firmly against, though the feminist directive that guided the movement is particularly egalitarian, much in the same transcendental vein that feminism usually influences otherwise broad issues.
As we know Depp won. Heard owes 10 million. Her insurance company is suing. And her attempts are failing.
Like one of the jurors having a different age than listed. Her side knew about it, and so did Depp. Got rejected because once they accept the juror, that's it. Can't go back and say no after the trial.
Understandable that Heard would want to find a way to reduce the $10 million. She doesn't have that at all.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:19 amThe whole point of Me Too was to showcase how many women have been sexually harassed/assaulted. And it included men too.
It's funny that you put it this way, because I feel it nicely reflects on how sexual abuse hurled towards men is very much an afterthought for the #metoo-movement, which largely focuses on how women are universal victims:
It's always been that way with feminism. There was always that segment of women basically saying 'women first, then men'. Or more specifically, once women have all the freedoms, rights and privileges as men, then they will look into the make side.
Hell there are a few feminist groups that opposes 50/50 shared parenting. Something Father's Rights groups have been fighting for a long time. FYI, Father's Rights groups are not just angry men who got screwed in court, but girlfriends/wives who are fighting with and for their husbands/boyfriends for some sort of custody of the children. Also mothers, fathers, and even grown children who got caught between the custody battles.
Feminism isn't a just a single homogeneous group though. And it's unfair to think it that way.
MeToo isn't principally structured like the Holy Roman Church. Feminism takes more of an introspective look at conditions of marginalization and details the personal cost of civil agency through norms and customs.
What you "hear most often" isn't supposed to be a bedrock foundation of a movement, you have to look at what it actually effected as change.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:44 am
MeToo isn't principally structured like the Holy Roman Church. Feminism takes more of an introspective look at conditions of marginalization and details the personal cost of civil agency through norms and customs.
What you "hear most often" isn't supposed to be a bedrock foundation of a movement, you have to look at what it actually effected as change.
Well yeah. MeToo is just a hashtag. There is no organization behind it. The whole idea was for sexual abuse/assault survivors to tell their story or at least just post the hashtag. It was to show how many women really got sexually assaulted or abused.
Though I do agree, the male victims were kinda put in as an afterthought.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:44 am
MeToo isn't principally structured like the Holy Roman Church. Feminism takes more of an introspective look at conditions of marginalization and details the personal cost of civil agency through norms and customs.
What you "hear most often" isn't supposed to be a bedrock foundation of a movement, you have to look at what it actually effected as change.
Though I do agree, the male victims were kinda put in as an afterthought.
I don’t think it was even supposed to be a direct or particular advocacy.
