Game of Thrones sequel?

[hammerofglass]

Has there ever been a show that self-destructed so completely as Game of Thrones did? Genuine question. This show was HUGE. MASSIVE. It broke records, it was discussed in newspapers, it made stars of its leads. It should have ended up as a classic of our age.
And yet in the course of two seasons it did everything wrong.

...as soon as it no longer had existing novels to crib from.

Nah, that can't be it. They'd been pretty much ignoring the novels since season 5. A few big scenes like the Walk of Shame or Drogon attacking the fighting pits made it in, but they happened completely differently in completely different contexts.

[McAvoy]

Has there ever been a show that self-destructed so completely as Game of Thrones did? Genuine question. This show was HUGE. MASSIVE. It broke records, it was discussed in newspapers, it made stars of its leads. It should have ended up as a classic of our age.
And yet in the course of two seasons it did everything wrong.

...as soon as it no longer had existing novels to crib from.

Nah, that can't be it. They'd been pretty much ignoring the novels since season 5. A few big scenes like the Walk of Shame or Drogon attacking the fighting pits made it in, but they happened completely differently in completely different contexts.

It was definitely creeping in around season 5. The whole Dorne thing was a waste of time and not even close to what was in the books.

They did a great job streamlining the books for the show. But it was took a nosedive the moment they had to write the stories for themselves.

Tyrion for example went from a funny, intelligent, thought provoking character to almost useless by show's end.

The showrunners were like children that originally were playing a game, going through all the side quests, picking up every rare item, hidden doors etc. And then they found out there was a new game they could play, so they rushed through the game just to finish it.

[hammerofglass]

Tyrion is a big one I was thinking of. Season 5+ Tyrion and book 4+ Tyrion are completely different characters with completely different plotlines. Show Tyrion was always a lot more heroic than the outright villain in the books, maybe they just couldn't stomach the lovable Peter Dinklage version doing the messed up shit he does in the books.

[Hero_Of_Shadows]

Regarding Martin's speed of writing I think this is a video which goes over what we know and I think his estimates and analysis are as good as you can reasonably get: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KukzgDTcxeQ

Regarding the end of the show, I saw Dany's actions or at least something like that happening from a mile away she was just too conveniently sequestered from the action in a part of the world where her only adversaries were slavers (aka whatever she did to them nobody would bat an eye) it was clear George was planning something for when Dany was getting to Westeross and that something wasn't negociations and compromise.

That being said the last season had a very low quality of adaptation, I get it the team is tired from the previous seasons they're adapting ideas instead of books they have a limit of episodes etc but still you know stuff like the Starbucks cup happened we can't just ignore they didn't happen.

Personally I'm not interested in a Jon Snow show.

[Madner Kami]

I get it the team is tired from the previous seasons they're adapting ideas instead of books they have a limit of episodes etc but still you know stuff like the Starbucks cup happened we can't just ignore they didn't happen.

Personally I'm not interested in a Jon Snow show.

This is provably false. The actors we're visibly unhappy with the direction they got and the network literally begged for more seasons and time. The only ones who were tired and wanted to end it right there and then, were the two show-runners, who refused to let others do the job. It's literally all the fault of Bennihoff and Weiss.

[hammerofglass]

My take is that after they decided to cut Young Griff/Aegon and Euron Greyjoy (the guy in the show by the same name is a different character) from the adaptation the effects started to compound until there was no way to make the book endgame make any sense even if they hadn't just stopped giving a shit. And they couldn't make up a completely different ending that still works because the show runners had stopped giving a shit.

[stryke]

...as soon as it no longer had existing novels to crib from.

I'd go further and as soon as they ran out of decent material to adapt. The first three books leant themselves very well and they even managed to improve on what was there in places like adding original scenes that the pov's never saw like the one between Robert and Cersei.

4 and 5 however are far, far tougher fare. You have plenty of your main cast unable to be used which is a tricky thing to handle with contracts (for example: sure Theon getting tortured was horrible but they were paying the actor and that was what his character was doing all that time), sitting on their heels being bored like Dany or Jon, or wandering around not accomplishing anything that's all that relevent. Then you've got the new characters brought in late to complicate stuff even further or just go onto to die anyway.

Not surprised they looked at those novels and decided to try something else in season 5-6 to connect to the notes they had from Martin about what the ending was supposed to look like, and credit to them in that they at least did manage to come up with something rather than nothing.

[McAvoy]

They had the right idea to merge character arcs like Jane/Fake Arya with Sansa for example. Or delete the Aegon (who may or may not be the real deal) totally for story flow.

The problem is coming up with new material but still keeping up that pace, that quality, and even internal consistency the show had in previous seasons.

As in teleporting everywhere, where before you actually had scenes while they are marching, riding, walking to their destination. Season 7 and 8 were bad about this.

All it would have took was the two showrunners to step aside and let others continue the show. Bring in writers if need be to fill it out.

A perfect example of this would be more of a dragged out conversation about Jon Snow. Such a big deal for the show that got pushed aside real quick after the big reveal.

There was seven episodes they decided not to do that at least could have filled out the show, let things simmer and all that.

[stryke]

I do think it's funny where people bring up the teleporting as an obvious problem where in the very first episode of season 1 you have Cersei and Jamie in King's Landing, and in the next scene they're in Winterfell. I also remember well all the (deserved) jokes about Littlefinger's jetpack in s2-3. I think it's fine not to always show the travel if it results in better telly, the problem was that the quality wasn't there as much and so people were less willing to forgive such bouncing about Westeros.

[Madner Kami]

I do think it's funny where people bring up the teleporting as an obvious problem where in the very first episode of season 1 you have Cersei and Jamie in King's Landing, and in the next scene they're in Winterfell. I also remember well all the (deserved) jokes about Littlefinger's jetpack in s2-3. I think it's fine not to always show the travel if it results in better telly, the problem was that the quality wasn't there as much and so people were less willing to forgive such bouncing about Westeros.

Teleporting isn't describing the lack of travel. It describes the (percieved or implied) lack of travel-time.