Revisiting the Dues Ex franchise.

[King Green]

Hey y'all, been away for a butt-tonnne of time and been play non-stop with the old and new Dues Ex games, except for the abominable dlcs steam separated and forced me to pay.
Playing the old Dues games really is fun for the mandatory attention to detail and odd level designs but I never got to finish the games because of the mid-game levels were so damn hard, I'll try to beat again on a earlier save with different combat tactic. I am doing a shotgun-sniper build.

Now the new Dues games, *whistles* those are understandably unloved for hardcore fans who are stunted with canon. But they put more understandable perspective into how the old Dues games become what they were, especially on my personal theory that the Illuminati are a bunch of undergraduate students of the original Council of 5 who cloned their founder only to unwittingly know that that clone is more of a danger than a mentor (Spoilers: Its Bob Page). You lot could argue about the graphics or the conflicting lore towards the old Dues games, but does it look like you lot care? No, you do care but from the wrong pov.

Btw, does anyone know how to do both the picus bank heist & the bomb maker quest with triggering to soft-lock?

[CharlesPhipps]

My take on the original game vs. new games is that DEUX EX is fantastic in both storytelling as well as gameplay but doesn't have quite the same level of characterization as well as world-building as HUMAN REVOLUTION. I feel like the prequel is something that has a lot more "heart" in the same way that I think SNAKE EATER is the best of the Metal Gear Solid games.

I will say that the Deux Ex game has suffered from the fact that the "good guys" are a bunch of separatist conspiracy theorists. Paul has allied himself with a bunch of Right Wing terrorists and it really undermines what he's supposed to be standing for here.

The Gray Death conspiracy theories have aged too well, though, because a State Senator was just convicted of stealing a million in relief efforts. RL has shown there are people who would profit from an epidemic.

[Madner Kami]

The NSF aged incredibly badly, didn't it? Though I'd argue that "right wing terrorists" or "separatist conspiracy theorists" is a mislabeling when looking at it within the context of the Deus Ex world. They're a constitutionalist group fighting against the globalist agenda of a hidden group controlling the world. Unlike in our reality, they aren't fighting against windmills though, they are indeed fighting against a hidden group controlling the world via a globalist agenda, through which they eliminate democracy. They are correct in that assessment.

[CharlesPhipps]

The NSF aged incredibly badly, didn't it? Though I'd argue that "right wing terrorists" or "separatist conspiracy theorists" is a mislabeling when looking at it within the context of the Deus Ex world. They're a constitutionalist group fighting against the globalist agenda of a hidden group controlling the world. Unlike in our reality, they aren't fighting against windmills though, they are indeed fighting against a hidden group controlling the world via a globalist agenda, through which they eliminate democracy. They are correct in that assessment.

Yeah, which is a terrible thing to do given their rhetoric is exactly the same as actual Right Wing terrorists. Saying here, "But they're RIGHT in this universe" isn't much of a defense.

Mind you, I don't think Deus Ex is necessarily 100% on the side of the NSF either as we get a lot of insight into the fact that "my enemy's enemy is my friend" as you ally with an Illuminati Remnant as well as the Anti-Illuminati separatists AND Tongs and Majestic-12 defectors. In the end, everyone is also planning to betray one another.

(I like how Deus Ex: Invisible War also straight up says, "The Destroy Civilization Ending was an incredibly horrible idea." Which is something I'm glad they did as anyone who chooses that has got to be off their rocker.)

Going back to the original vs. Human Revolution (which I think most agree are the two best games of the franchise), Deus Ex is a lot less linear and more choice filled but I also think the latter's story holds up a bit better. It has some problems with the fact that EVERYTHING is about augmentation while Deus Ex addressed multiple issues but I feel like the somewhat lower stakes throughout made it feel right.

I also love the retcon that is absolutely against the spirit of Deux Ex 1, where Taggert says the Illuminati is just what a bunch of billionaires named themselves. Canonically, it is probably about a hundred years old and DeBeers still probably killed Kennedy but it's not a centuries old conspsiracy. I felt that was entertaining as fuck.

[clearspira]

I think Human Revolution is a very realistic examination of what will happen when cyborg parts become easily available:
The rich will get further ahead than they are already, the poor will resort to bigotry, fringe political movements, street crime and cheap Chinese knock offs that barely work.

[clearspira]

The NSF aged incredibly badly, didn't it? Though I'd argue that "right wing terrorists" or "separatist conspiracy theorists" is a mislabeling when looking at it within the context of the Deus Ex world. They're a constitutionalist group fighting against the globalist agenda of a hidden group controlling the world. Unlike in our reality, they aren't fighting against windmills though, they are indeed fighting against a hidden group controlling the world via a globalist agenda, through which they eliminate democracy. They are correct in that assessment.

Warren Spector has apparently gone on record and said that Deus Ex 1 would be very different today as he would be worried about seemingly endorsing so many right wing conspiracy theories.

[tyrteg]

Warren Spector has apparently gone on record and said that Deus Ex 1 would be very different today as he would be worried about seemingly endorsing so many right wing conspiracy theories.

Here is the GDC postmortem - a 2017 lesson he gave to young game Devs about making Deus Ex and what lessons he learned. Highly advise everyone to watch it. Awesome stuff about game development in general and lot's of fun Deus Ex trivia. Like confirmation that JC does indeed stand for Jesus Christ and the story behind why the character's last name in Denton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tffX3VljTtI

[CharlesPhipps]

I think Human Revolution is a very realistic examination of what will happen when cyborg parts become easily available:
The rich will get further ahead than they are already, the poor will resort to bigotry, fringe political movements, street crime and cheap Chinese knock offs that barely work.

Yeah, it's why I felt Mankind Divided was such a stupid plotline. The transhumanists becoming a horribly oppressed underclass fails when they require a shit ton of money to be cyberized in the first place. You'd think that everyone would also be investing in cloning organs.

Warren Spector has apparently gone on record and said that Deus Ex 1 would be very different today as he would be worried about seemingly endorsing so many right wing conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories were primarily considered somewhat harmless back then as I recall. There was also less overt political endorsement even though the "Jews are lizard people crowd" was always there. There were Left, Right, and just plain weird types.

Mind you, I have always been annoyed that conspiracy theorists have stolen "conspiracy" because I am one of those people who notes that "mysterious groups moving vast money to nebulous corrupt agendas" is pretty damn real.

[stryke]

Conspiracy theories were primarily considered somewhat harmless back then as I recall

Yep, it was very much the time of the X-Files when conspiracy theories were fun. As Chuck put it so eloquently in a review, the turning point was 9/11 where conspiries went from amusing to horrifying shit.

It's one of the reasons why the relatively recent Inside Job doesn't work as well as if it had come out in the 90's. Well that, it being a gender swapped Futurama with only two characters who have any kind of depth, and mainly that they play the lizard people entirely straight which is really, really so much amounts of NOPE given as you said what that conspiracy theory is always about in truth.