The New Mutants: The Movie Screwed Over be the Universe

[CharlesPhipps]

Allow me to pull back and relate what I mean.

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

Rogue is hard enough. Do we really need "conjures demons that murder their entire indigineous hometown?"

[stryke]

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

Agreed, it's a messy, messy problem and one I think that Marvel hasn't handled very well over the years.

It's so intrinsically linked to the mutants that they represent minorities and sometimes it's been done well. I'm thinking some of Morrison's run where it felt like the mutants had their own culture, some of X-Men 1-2 ("Have you tried not being a mutant?"), or God Loves, Man Kills.

Course then Marvel took Morrison's work and killed all that interesting work and reduced it down to 600 mutants world-wide.

Then you've got the seriously weird modern take where they're basically doing Wakanda 2 but even more so.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

But the same movie ALSO proves that humans are dangerous if left alone hence the whole poisoning all mutants thing

I feel like there's a distinct difference between, "horrific danger to person by biology" and "genocide via corn syrup."

I think you're being a bit hasty with regards to what the story "argues" specifically.

[Madner Kami]

Rogue is hard enough. Do we really need "conjures demons that murder their entire indigineous hometown?"

She wouldn't end up in "Arkham Asylum", if her power wouldn't have caused harm in such a way, so within the constraints of the story: it was necessary. Same for the other inhabitants. Using different characters would have been a better choice probably though. Aka: You wouldn't throw someone who stole a loaf of bread into Arkham Asylum. The character needs to be at Joker-levels of dangerous.

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

See that's the funny thing where the whole mutant-scare thing goes off the rails. That mutants are representative of minorities as a whole is a fairly modern idea. Mutants were originally much more a metaphor for the AIDS-epidemic and it stands to reason that someone infected with HIV very much is a menace to the general public, because their "superpower" literally kills or, rather, killed with almost 100% certainty and there was nothing you could do about it, other than isolating them or the general public from each other in a manner of speaking. In other words: Making them into a representation of all minorities is the problem, while still treating them like an infectious disease. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

[Thebestoftherest]

Rogue is hard enough. Do we really need "conjures demons that murder their entire indigineous hometown?"

She wouldn't end up in "Arkham Asylum", if her power wouldn't have caused harm in such a way, so within the constraints of the story: it was necessary. Same for the other inhabitants. Using different characters would have been a better choice probably though. Aka: You wouldn't throw someone who stole a loaf of bread into Arkham Asylum. The character needs to be at Joker-levels of dangerous.

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

See that's the funny thing where the whole mutant-scare thing goes off the rails. That mutants are representative of minorities as a whole is a fairly modern idea. Mutants were originally much more a metaphor for the AIDS-epidemic and it stands to reason that someone infected with HIV very much is a menace to the general public, because their "superpower" literally kills or, rather, killed with almost 100% certainty and there was nothing you could do about it, other than isolating them or the general public from each other in a manner of speaking. In other words: Making them into a representation of all minorities is the problem, while still treating them like an infectious disease. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Where the heck did you get tue idea they represent aids epidic?

[Thebestoftherest]

Allow me to pull back and relate what I mean.

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

Rogue is hard enough. Do we really need "conjures demons that murder their entire indigineous hometown?"

Maybe it the same mindset that allow morons like Zack Snyder and Ed Boon to keep trying to associate Superman with Fascism even if he supposed to represent the experience of an immigrant and his creator was Jewish. One of Superman earliest stories have him bringing Hitler and Stalin to trial for crimes against humanity.

[stryke]

See that's the funny thing where the whole mutant-scare thing goes off the rails. That mutants are representative of minorities as a whole is a fairly modern idea.

God Loves, Man Kills came out in 1982. Hardy modern and was explicit in comparing Mutants to racial discrination.

[Madner Kami]

Rogue is hard enough. Do we really need "conjures demons that murder their entire indigineous hometown?"

She wouldn't end up in "Arkham Asylum", if her power wouldn't have caused harm in such a way, so within the constraints of the story: it was necessary. Same for the other inhabitants. Using different characters would have been a better choice probably though. Aka: You wouldn't throw someone who stole a loaf of bread into Arkham Asylum. The character needs to be at Joker-levels of dangerous.

Yes, I get the history in the comics but I think it makes them a shitty analog for minorities in RL if you press hard on the "ticking time bomb" element.

See that's the funny thing where the whole mutant-scare thing goes off the rails. That mutants are representative of minorities as a whole is a fairly modern idea. Mutants were originally much more a metaphor for the AIDS-epidemic and it stands to reason that someone infected with HIV very much is a menace to the general public, because their "superpower" literally kills or, rather, killed with almost 100% certainty and there was nothing you could do about it, other than isolating them or the general public from each other in a manner of speaking. In other words: Making them into a representation of all minorities is the problem, while still treating them like an infectious disease. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Where the heck did you get tue idea they represent aids epidic?

Maybe badly worded on my end. The issue with mutant control is something that came up in the comics in the late 80s (Legacy Virus and Mutant Control/Registration Act). This was when Reagan's failed policy regarding AIDS lead to a widespread epidemic which was completely out of control. Stuff like the Mutant Control/Registration Act and the perception that mutants are a threat to the general public stems much more from these reallife-happenings and this legacy continues to this day.

Of course the X-Men themselves started out purely because Lee and co were tired of making up bullshit reasons for new heroes and the heroes they created became kind of an icon/representation for various minorities, which also lead into X-Men becoming a representation of the AIDS-scare and this legacy keeps on leading to problems when looking at mutants purely through the lense of the civil rights movements and similar organisations, as a lot of mutants are undeniably a problem per se, while minorities generally are not (unless if it's a russian minority and your country is on Russia's borders *snarks*).

[CharlesPhipps]

She wouldn't end up in "Arkham Asylum", if her power wouldn't have caused harm in such a way, so within the constraints of the story: it was necessary. Same for the other inhabitants. Using different characters would have been a better choice probably though. Aka: You wouldn't throw someone who stole a loaf of bread into Arkham Asylum. The character needs to be at Joker-levels of dangerous.

If you're referring to the asylum in the show, it's owned by the Essex Corporation and is run by the people who killed all the mutants in Logan. It's not because she's dangerous that she's there, it's because Sinister (or his analog in the X-men cinematic universe) wants to kill all mutants.

See that's the funny thing where the whole mutant-scare thing goes off the rails. That mutants are representative of minorities as a whole is a fairly modern idea. Mutants were originally much more a metaphor for the AIDS-epidemic and it stands to reason that someone infected with HIV very much is a menace to the general public, because their "superpower" literally kills or, rather, killed with almost 100% certainty and there was nothing you could do about it, other than isolating them or the general public from each other in a manner of speaking. In other words: Making them into a representation of all minorities is the problem, while still treating them like an infectious disease. Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Uh, they were created in the Sixties and Stan Lee says Professor X was based on Martin Luther King and Magneto on Malcolm X (which sounds like bullshit given Magneto was just a generic world conquering villain but never let the truth get in the way of a good story). THE LEGACY VIRUS by Stryfe was based on the AIDS epidemic but not mutants in general.

[Madner Kami]

She wouldn't end up in "Arkham Asylum", if her power wouldn't have caused harm in such a way, so within the constraints of the story: it was necessary. Same for the other inhabitants. Using different characters would have been a better choice probably though. Aka: You wouldn't throw someone who stole a loaf of bread into Arkham Asylum. The character needs to be at Joker-levels of dangerous.

If you're referring to the asylum in the show, it's owned by the Essex Corporation and is run by the people who killed all the mutants in Logan. It's not because she's dangerous that she's there, it's because Sinister (or his analog in the X-men cinematic universe) wants to kill all mutants.

Have you stopped to think about how the kids got there in the first place? That's no accusation, because the writers didn't think about that either. Outside of what happens to Danni, noone makes a statement or shows a behaviour akin to: "I was abducted by some dudes" or "I just kinda woke up here". The implication for them is, that their families and governmental authorities brought them there. It's hard to imagine that everyone is in cahoots with Mr. Sinister, while the Asylum is still being run like a relatively normal asylum, rather than a crazy extermination- and experimentation-camp on a surface-level, so (several) someone(s), somewhere, considers the Asylum to be a facility which is supposed to treat and help the children first and foremost (in addition to detain them) and heck, the Doctor is apparently trying to adress their traumas. This would all be very, VERY different if everybody knew what the facility and Essex Corp really is.