Voyager - Future's End

[Rocketboy1313]

There was a topic that migrated through the internet and one of them was 'What if the 2015 United States as a whole was transported to 1815.'

Now outside the obvious, well the US would curbstomp every nation. Then came the actual thinking.

As in how do you get the 2015 technology to the rest of the world? You would need to build a tool to make a tool that makes another tool that finally can make this part but it won't be as good as the 2015 version for awhile until they refine the process. And that just could be for a turbine engine for power plants. Something within the realm of understanding for even for someone in 1815. Computers? Hell no. They still think humors cause illnesses. Like you smell something it literally makes you sick sort of thing.

I like this little sci-fi thought experiment.

Even the curb stomping would be more difficult than we imagine. So much manufacturing is done overseas at this point there would be a widespread shortages of tools, component parts, canned goods, oil, rubber, and tons of other materials.

We would know where all of the natural resources are, as we have tons of computer records to old time maps and surveys, but good lord imagine having to ship literally everything you would need to set up an operation to another continent which would have zero existing infrastructure to take advantage of.

And then if the "2015 United States" doesn't include the army bases and navel equipment outside the nation's boundaries it is going to be hard to manifest destiny all over the rest of the world quickly while slowed down by all the pathogens that will kill recruitment.

So yeah, the analogy does fit for the most part.

Maybe the future computer has detailed schematics of each stage of computer development from where Earth was at the time all the way up, and a teaching program so that time cops can be familiarized with material before going undercover in an area. So he would sit down for a few weeks learning each new stage a bit at a time, including what rare earth elements to covertly acquire before their value is known and ramp things up year after year.

Maybe his jump start of this computer timeline is why Khan isn't ruling Asia and why Discovery had holo-communications.

[McAvoy]

And even the shit he did actually do was half-cocked. All he managed to do with access to isolinier circuitry (read: quantum computing) was to create Windows 95. Maybe continue with that? Y'know, how about the iPod a few years earlier? Make yourself a nice few hundred billion off that first?

I mean from my point of view it makes sense. He's basically single handedly fostering the computer revolution, and he's been able to supplant both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs out of their spots on the timeline in one swoop.

He has all the technology, but society needs to develop the stuff, so there is a lot of hand-in-hand coordination he has to do with the natural course of technical evolution. It almost makes sense that after like 25 years of it he decided to get more greedy.

There was a topic that migrated through the internet and one of them was 'What if the 2015 United States as a whole was transported to 1815.'

Now outside the obvious, well the US would curbstomp every nation. Then came the actual thinking.

As in how do you get the 2015 technology to the rest of the world? You would need to build a tool to make a tool that makes another tool that finally can make this part but it won't be as good as the 2015 version for awhile until they refine the process. And that just could be for a turbine engine for power plants. Something within the realm of understanding for even for someone in 1815. Computers? Hell no. They still think humors cause illnesses. Like you smell something it literally makes you sick sort of thing.

All of thd advanced computer tech companies outside the US?

Going back to Trek. The same woukd apply. Nevermind in 1997 he is a computer superpower that with some Windows knockoff he could hack into Voyager.

Go back to when he first discovered the ship in the 60's. How much of that tech that hundreds of years more advanced could he truly understand? Computers back then were still pretty primitive.

The only thing that I can think of is that the computer system for that Future ship basically taught him how to make super advanced computers decades ahead of its time.

Maybe he told the computer to create some computer system that wasn't out of the realm of possibility and replicate it. Then brought it in to computer scientists who would analyze it, break it down and understand it.

I've sometimes thought about a scenario where I was to be sent back in time to the middle ages or some such time and could bring one modern invention to try to make a living off of. I've often thought that what I would bring back was ibuprofen, which I'd think would seem quite the miracle to people living in that time. Of course, I doubt I'd be able to bring back enough knowledge and skill to singlehandedly make it myself, so I have in mind something more like I somehow can bring back a supply of millions of pills or otherwise would be able to have access to it.

I would actually bring antibiotics out of the two. Just bringing that would save so many lives to a simple infection that got worse.

One thing I have thought about is just simply bringing a revolver to let's say the 1700's would be interesting. The design of a revolver is pretty simple, easy to understand. The problem would be the ammunition. Quality control and even just the makeup of the gunpowder alone could cause some difficulty. But still doable.

I definitely wouldn't bring anything that requires a charge, or a set of batteries or fuel. Bringing a car for example would only work for a limited time. Bringing a Jeep or any off road vehicle would solve the lack of paved roads issue.

Cars would blow their mind.

[clearspira]

There is of course one obvious problem with a lot of this: if you actually went back in time with something that to them looks like magic then you would probably be burned at the stake. History was xenophobic and for good reason because they spent most of their time at war or at fear of war from the next country or town over. Some stranger turning up with a pocketful of magic will not be tolerated. The furthest you could probably go back would be the 1800s.

Which is why laudanum works so well because it just goes straight in the alcohol they are already drinking.

As for the question of sending back a modern army, I thought about this once when debating with someone about America vs Middle Earth. The problem is twofold 1) So much of the modern military is based around satellites. No satellites means no GPS, no drones, no internet, no cellphones. Your modern military suddenly regresses back to a 1960s state of existence. 2) Fuel. A jet needs fuel. A ship needs fuel. A humvee needs fuel. A human needs fuel (where are the farms coming from)? If you go too far back then there simply will be no available oil. And as an aside, never count out the home field advantage. The locals will know more about the area especially now you have taken GPS out of the equation.
A modern army would still win, but it would take months longer than the curbstomp most people assume.

[McAvoy]

There is of course one obvious problem with a lot of this: if you actually went back in time with something that to them looks like magic then you would probably be burned at the stake. History was xenophobic and for good reason because they spent most of their time at war or at fear of war from the next country or town over. Some stranger turning up with a pocketful of magic will not be tolerated. The furthest you could probably go back would be the 1800s.

Which is why laudanum works so well because it just goes straight in the alcohol they are already drinking.

As for the question of sending back a modern army, I thought about this once when debating with someone about America vs Middle Earth. The problem is twofold 1) So much of the modern military is based around satellites. No satellites means no GPS, no drones, no internet, no cellphones. Your modern military suddenly regresses back to a 1960s state of existence. 2) Fuel. A jet needs fuel. A ship needs fuel. A humvee needs fuel. A human needs fuel (where are the farms coming from)? If you go too far back then there simply will be no available oil. And as an aside, never count out the home field advantage. The locals will know more about the area especially now you have taken GPS out of the equation.
A modern army would still win, but it would take months longer than the curbstomp most people assume.

If i recall the original topic, it was basically just the US, itself. Not resources or outside the US that gets transported to 1815. FYI it was a topic that originated in 2015.

Anyway the general consensus the US would crash hard before they establish or reestablish resources. That's means all of the tapped out resources of 2015 would be available in 1815. The US would know where all the major resources in the world.

Food wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Solar power, hydro power and wind power would help with a major energy crisis.

Anything that involves satellites would be dead and would be for a long long time.

[Lazerlike42]

There is of course one obvious problem with a lot of this: if you actually went back in time with something that to them looks like magic then you would probably be burned at the stake. History was xenophobic and for good reason because they spent most of their time at war or at fear of war from the next country or town over. Some stranger turning up with a pocketful of magic will not be tolerated. The furthest you could probably go back would be the 1800s.

Which is why laudanum works so well because it just goes straight in the alcohol they are already drinking.

As for the question of sending back a modern army, I thought about this once when debating with someone about America vs Middle Earth. The problem is twofold 1) So much of the modern military is based around satellites. No satellites means no GPS, no drones, no internet, no cellphones. Your modern military suddenly regresses back to a 1960s state of existence. 2) Fuel. A jet needs fuel. A ship needs fuel. A humvee needs fuel. A human needs fuel (where are the farms coming from)? If you go too far back then there simply will be no available oil. And as an aside, never count out the home field advantage. The locals will know more about the area especially now you have taken GPS out of the equation.
A modern army would still win, but it would take months longer than the curbstomp most people assume.

If i recall the original topic, it was basically just the US, itself. Not resources or outside the US that gets transported to 1815. FYI it was a topic that originated in 2015.

Anyway the general consensus the US would crash hard before they establish or reestablish resources. That's means all of the tapped out resources of 2015 would be available in 1815. The US would know where all the major resources in the world.

Food wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Solar power, hydro power and wind power would help with a major energy crisis.

Anything that involves satellites would be dead and would be for a long long time.

If we're bringing the US as it was in 2015 lock, stock, and barrel, why wouldn't that also mean that any satellites the US owned at that time would also come along, still in orbit?

Personally, I think we underestimate the impact of modern technology not to think that even assuming the US - or most western countries - were transported only with what they actually had on hand in 2015 and without any extranational resource supply lines that it still wouldn't be enough to overwhelm much of the world. I'd suggest that just one armored personnel carrier with a bunch of guys with automatic weapons inside and however many rounds they could fit would possibly be able to win most of the significant battles in history singlehandedly.

[McAvoy]

There is of course one obvious problem with a lot of this: if you actually went back in time with something that to them looks like magic then you would probably be burned at the stake. History was xenophobic and for good reason because they spent most of their time at war or at fear of war from the next country or town over. Some stranger turning up with a pocketful of magic will not be tolerated. The furthest you could probably go back would be the 1800s.

Which is why laudanum works so well because it just goes straight in the alcohol they are already drinking.

As for the question of sending back a modern army, I thought about this once when debating with someone about America vs Middle Earth. The problem is twofold 1) So much of the modern military is based around satellites. No satellites means no GPS, no drones, no internet, no cellphones. Your modern military suddenly regresses back to a 1960s state of existence. 2) Fuel. A jet needs fuel. A ship needs fuel. A humvee needs fuel. A human needs fuel (where are the farms coming from)? If you go too far back then there simply will be no available oil. And as an aside, never count out the home field advantage. The locals will know more about the area especially now you have taken GPS out of the equation.
A modern army would still win, but it would take months longer than the curbstomp most people assume.

If i recall the original topic, it was basically just the US, itself. Not resources or outside the US that gets transported to 1815. FYI it was a topic that originated in 2015.

Anyway the general consensus the US would crash hard before they establish or reestablish resources. That's means all of the tapped out resources of 2015 would be available in 1815. The US would know where all the major resources in the world.

Food wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Solar power, hydro power and wind power would help with a major energy crisis.

Anything that involves satellites would be dead and would be for a long long time.

If we're bringing the US as it was in 2015 lock, stock, and barrel, why wouldn't that also mean that any satellites the US owned at that time would also come along, still in orbit?

Personally, I think we underestimate the impact of modern technology not to think that even assuming the US - or most western countries - were transported only with what they actually had on hand in 2015 and without any extranational resource supply lines that it still wouldn't be enough to overwhelm much of the world. I'd suggest that just one armored personnel carrier with a bunch of guys with automatic weapons inside and however many rounds they could fit would possibly be able to win most of the significant battles in history singlehandedly.

Look the original topic was basically the 50 states of the US being transported to 1815. Nothing outside those states comes. Virgin resources of 1815 remains. Doesn't explain how virign resources mix in with established infrastructure of 2015.

You can assume the satellites being outside the US doesn't come either.

[TGLS]

Look the original topic was basically the 50 states of the US being transported to 1815. Nothing outside those states comes. Virgin resources of 1815 remains. Doesn't explain how virign resources mix in with established infrastructure of 2015.

You can assume the satellites being outside the US doesn't come either.

And suddenly "Canadian girlfriend" becomes less of a punchline and more of a metaphor for loss of anyone with any kind of expatriate relationship.

[clearspira]

So does anyone want to throw up some in-universe theories as to where Khan is? Thing is, I could buy the retcon argument, I could even buy Voyager's continuity adverse writers just forgetting about it... but they just had to do it didn't they? They just had to put that model of Khan's ship in Raine's office as a little homage for the fans. Because in the universe of Star Trek, the only way that ship could be on her desk is if it was real. Which means Khan must be real which means there must be a war on. Its not WW3 because we have a canonical date for that of 2026 (bit scary we are approaching that date with everything happening with Russia and China right now huh?) but its still meant to be a major conflict in that the augments seized power in over forty nations!

And I think what bugs me about this is that the writers clearly knew their canon here which means that instead of the rednecks in the desert bit, or pretty much any scene with Sarah Silverman in it; we could have had Khan's army detect Voyager or witness his ship taking off and Janeway lamenting that she cannot stop it because of the PD. Hell, maybe Starling, instead of his one henchman, could have had a couple of super soldiers on hand and we could have had an awesome fight scene between some augments and the Away Team? Maybe Starling is the one who used his future tech to create Khan's ship in the first place?

''Voyager, where potential goes to die''.

[clearspira]

OK... so I just looked at Memory Alpha's entry on the Eugenics Wars out of interest, and it either happened between 1992-1996 according to TOS (but was also our last world war which would definitely be retconned later on to take place in the 2020s), was somewhere in the 22nd century according to DS9 (which fucks with ENT because it would be too recent for ''The Augments'' to happen), happened somewhere in the 20th century according to Phlox, absolutely happened in the 1990s according to Star Trek Into Darkness, and Strange New Worlds has decided that it took place after a second American civil war in the 2020s (that according to MA was apparently caused in part by Trump supporters which gave me a bemused chuckle at how badly that'll age) when one of Dr Noonian Soong's many millions of ancestors found a file on Khan from 1996... so I can't tell if this is meant to be a second Eugenics War or the same one and just pushed forward which would actually fall in line with TOS's claim of it being our last world war. Memory Alpha seems confused by this. We also have conflicting death rates, anywhere from thirty million to not that many at all.

Anyhow, Star Trek's continuity is all over the place on this. There definitely does seem to have been a war somewhere between 1992 and 2020 though, which still puts ''Future's End'' as the outlier. Incidentally, Brannon Braga was kind enough in an interview to state in a roundabout way that he thought that viewers would be too dumb to think about the Eugenics Wars which is why they ignored it in the episode - which says so much about how he handled Trek, huh?

[jadenova]

Braxton's ship can travel through time but can it also travel through space.