Voyager - Future's End

[McAvoy]

Eugenics War happened in the 90's. WW3 happened in 2150's. First Contact ten years after it. Riker even states it.

There might be another war in between that may involved Colonel Green.

Simple fact is that when Space Seed was written, there was 30 years until 1992-1996. At that time many thought Earth would move forward in the Space Program. So when Futures End is written, Eugenics War is supposed to be ending or ended. But at the same time the writers wanted to show more of 'our' time than opposed to 'Trek's past'.

Strange New Worlds has retconned this as well as adding a Second Civil War, obviously involving the US. I suspect if the US ever had a Civil War, it won't be just isolated.

[RobbyB1982]

Maybe his jump start of this computer timeline is why Khan isn't ruling Asia and why Discovery had holo-communications.

They actually covered the holo-communications in Discovery season 2.

Basically the tech didn't mix well with the Enterprise and caused some problems, as it was like trying to run modern video games off a computer built in 85, so Pike had them turn it off. He preferred the 2D screens anyway.

This covers everything up through movie 6, given that even with retrofitting and an A added, the Enterprise is still the Enterprise.

Doesn't explain the built from scratch Enterprise B or anything in Next Gen not having it but what can you do. THey had them in DS9 briefly but it was difficult to set up the effect.

[CrypticMirror]

The holocomunicator thing is probably like how modern tech-bros keep "reinventing" things only with a different name, everyone gets excited for a hot minute, and then they remember why the original thing sucked, and go back to the simpler working version as always. The holocomunicator took up too much space and creeped people out, that was even given as a reason in DS9 and was just pure feature creep with no actual added value. Sometimes, with technological advances, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[Durandal_1707]

Between all the anger in this review directed towards plot holes and guest characters and the "you know what, I don't care, let's get out of here" at the end, I was expecting a final score far lower than 8.

[clearspira]

The holocomunicator thing is probably like how modern tech-bros keep "reinventing" things only with a different name, everyone gets excited for a hot minute, and then they remember why the original thing sucked, and go back to the simpler working version as always. The holocomunicator took up too much space and creeped people out, that was even given as a reason in DS9 and was just pure feature creep with no actual added value. Sometimes, with technological advances, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Going off topic slightly, I think the Metaverse is going to fail for this reason. I don't understand why you would want to put on your headset to talk to an avatar of someone when you can just pull your phone out and either talk normally or Skype. It's the next 3D or curved TVs. It's a fad.

That is not to say that VR won't have use. I like the idea of trying on clothes from Amazon before buying them for example. But as what Zuckerberg wants it to be? Nah.

[TGLS]

The holocomunicator thing is probably like how modern tech-bros keep "reinventing" things only with a different name, everyone gets excited for a hot minute, and then they remember why the original thing sucked, and go back to the simpler working version as always. The holocomunicator took up too much space and creeped people out, that was even given as a reason in DS9 and was just pure feature creep with no actual added value. Sometimes, with technological advances, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Going off topic slightly, I think the Metaverse is going to fail for this reason. I don't understand why you would want to put on your headset to talk to an avatar of someone when you can just pull your phone out and either talk normally or Skype. It's the next 3D or curved TVs. It's a fad.

That is not to say that VR won't have use. I like the idea of trying on clothes from Amazon before buying them for example. But as what Zuckerberg wants it to be? Nah.

Eh, Zuck just wants to really let himself go and not be socially shamed for it even over Skype.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Simple fact is that when Space Seed was written, there was 30 years until 1992-1996. At that time many thought Earth would move forward in the Space Program. So when Futures End is written, Eugenics War is supposed to be ending or ended. But at the same time the writers wanted to show more of 'our' time than opposed to 'Trek's past'.

What they could have done was suggest that the reversion of time rendered an alternate reality in which case it naturally resembles our world just with more of a unicorn touch; truncating our own technological development in one crude analogy. For all we know, this guy could have prevented the eugenics war.

[McAvoy]

Simple fact is that when Space Seed was written, there was 30 years until 1992-1996. At that time many thought Earth would move forward in the Space Program. So when Futures End is written, Eugenics War is supposed to be ending or ended. But at the same time the writers wanted to show more of 'our' time than opposed to 'Trek's past'.

What they could have done was suggest that the reversion of time rendered an alternate reality in which case it naturally resembles our world just with more of a unicorn touch; truncating our own technological development in one crude analogy. For all we know, this guy could have prevented the eugenics war.

That's true. There could have been some mention that the timeline is already altered. Like what happened to the Eugenics War.

That would make it interesting. Computer Dude prevented the Eugenics War and perhaps other wars from happening. But they did eventually happen delaying the Federation or prevent its formation. And Earth in the 24tj century is still stuck in the pre-warp propulsion.

[BlackoutCreature2]

So does anyone want to throw up some in-universe theories as to where Khan is? Thing is, I could buy the retcon argument, I could even buy Voyager's continuity adverse writers just forgetting about it... but they just had to do it didn't they? They just had to put that model of Khan's ship in Raine's office as a little homage for the fans. Because in the universe of Star Trek, the only way that ship could be on her desk is if it was real. Which means Khan must be real which means there must be a war on. Its not WW3 because we have a canonical date for that of 2026 (bit scary we are approaching that date with everything happening with Russia and China right now huh?) but its still meant to be a major conflict in that the augments seized power in over forty nations!

And I think what bugs me about this is that the writers clearly knew their canon here which means that instead of the rednecks in the desert bit, or pretty much any scene with Sarah Silverman in it; we could have had Khan's army detect Voyager or witness his ship taking off and Janeway lamenting that she cannot stop it because of the PD. Hell, maybe Starling, instead of his one henchman, could have had a couple of super soldiers on hand and we could have had an awesome fight scene between some augments and the Away Team? Maybe Starling is the one who used his future tech to create Khan's ship in the first place?

''Voyager, where potential goes to die''.

Khan is probably in Asia having major conflicts with nations like Russia, China, Iran and Pakistan, conflicts that the US probably wants nothing to do with.

I always imagined Khan and his ilk taking advantage of lesser developed nations that were probably still reeling from the fall of the Soviet Union. Places like Eastern Europe, South Asia, the Middle East, maybe parts of Africa and Latin America. I mean, eugenic super-soldiers might sound impressive in the 1960's when Roddenberry was writing TOS, but how effective would they really be in an era of cruise missiles and satellite guided weaponry? He would've known a war against the US or Western Europe or their allies in the 90's was a long-shot at best, at least until he could shore up his base of power and instituted some major technological improvements.

Actually I always imagined this being a big part of the build-up to World War III. Tensions develop between nations like Russia and China that were on the frontlines of the Eugenics War and places like the US and Western Europe that mainly sat it out. This leads to the dissolution of the UN. The US and its allies eventually form the "New United Nations", more or less a continuation of goals of the old one, while Russia and China form the Eastern Coalition/ECON, a more aggressive military alliance.

[clearspira]

So does anyone want to throw up some in-universe theories as to where Khan is? Thing is, I could buy the retcon argument, I could even buy Voyager's continuity adverse writers just forgetting about it... but they just had to do it didn't they? They just had to put that model of Khan's ship in Raine's office as a little homage for the fans. Because in the universe of Star Trek, the only way that ship could be on her desk is if it was real. Which means Khan must be real which means there must be a war on. Its not WW3 because we have a canonical date for that of 2026 (bit scary we are approaching that date with everything happening with Russia and China right now huh?) but its still meant to be a major conflict in that the augments seized power in over forty nations!

And I think what bugs me about this is that the writers clearly knew their canon here which means that instead of the rednecks in the desert bit, or pretty much any scene with Sarah Silverman in it; we could have had Khan's army detect Voyager or witness his ship taking off and Janeway lamenting that she cannot stop it because of the PD. Hell, maybe Starling, instead of his one henchman, could have had a couple of super soldiers on hand and we could have had an awesome fight scene between some augments and the Away Team? Maybe Starling is the one who used his future tech to create Khan's ship in the first place?

''Voyager, where potential goes to die''.

Khan is probably in Asia having major conflicts with nations like Russia, China, Iran and Pakistan, conflicts that the US probably wants nothing to do with.

I always imagined Khan and his ilk taking advantage of lesser developed nations that were probably still reeling from the fall of the Soviet Union. Places like Eastern Europe, South Asia, the Middle East, maybe parts of Africa and Latin America. I mean, eugenic super-soldiers might sound impressive in the 1960's when Roddenberry was writing TOS, but how effective would they really be in an era of cruise missiles and satellite guided weaponry? He would've known a war against the US or Western Europe or their allies in the 90's was a long-shot at best, at least until he could shore up his base of power and instituted some major technological improvements.

Actually I always imagined this being a big part of the build-up to World War III. Tensions develop between nations like Russia and China that were on the frontlines of the Eugenics War and places like the US and Western Europe that mainly sat it out. This leads to the dissolution of the UN. The US and its allies eventually form the "New United Nations", more or less a continuation of goals of the old one, while Russia and China form the Eastern Coalition/ECON, a more aggressive military alliance.

You make a great point there that I hadn't considered. The ''Into Darkness'' Khan is basically Captain America crossed with Wolverine. You can't hit him, you can't outsmart him, and you can't kill him because he just heals back up again. But that wasn't what Khan was in TOS. He was stronger and faster than Kirk, but he was still knocked out by a steel pipe. He was smarter than Kirk, but his lack of experience at piloting a starship and inability to adapt is still what ultimately got him killed. You get the impression that whilst the original Augments were probably a formidable foe when cracking a whip against unarmed prisoners, actually, an M-16 will kill one just as quickly as it would kill a human. Yeah... I cannot see how the Augments really would have been able to overrun NATO based on their augmentations alone.