Enterprise - Stigma

[clearspira]

The Vulcans have always been xenophobic dicks and the Klingons have never been honourable. The problem is Spock, Tuvok and Worf. Who let's note, one is half human, one has a human best friend in Janeway, and one was raised by humans.

All of the outliers in these races have been influenced by humans.

[Riedquat]

Voyager gave us Vorik, a recurring character who was everything from a bit colder to at one time a would-be rapist. Now that instance was canonically not exactly his fault, but looking at it out of universe we can nevertheless say that Voyager was definitely trying to take Vulcans to a darker place with that episode.

Voyager also gave us Tuvok of course. I don't see any reason to make him an exception because he's friends with Janeway, why can't that be a common Vulcan characteristic?

I think at least part of the problem is that Vulcans are hard to write and hard to act without coming across as lifeless to the point of being seemingly dismissive. I think that Tim Russ is just one of only a few people who could convincly act a Vulcan without giving that impression. Come to think of it there's always a slightly curious, fascinated about things way of speaking with both Spock and Tuvok, instead of the lifeless, wooden tone most actors give Vulcans.

[Lazerlike42]

Voyager gave us Vorik, a recurring character who was everything from a bit colder to at one time a would-be rapist. Now that instance was canonically not exactly his fault, but looking at it out of universe we can nevertheless say that Voyager was definitely trying to take Vulcans to a darker place with that episode.

Voyager also gave us Tuvok of course. I don't see any reason to make him an exception because he's friends with Janeway, why can't that be a common Vulcan characteristic?

I think at least part of the problem is that Vulcans are hard to write and hard to act without coming across as lifeless to the point of being seemingly dismissive. I think that Tim Russ is just one of only a few people who could convincly act a Vulcan without giving that impression. Come to think of it there's always a slightly curious, fascinated about things way of speaking with both Spock and Tuvok, instead of the lifeless, wooden tone most actors give Vulcans.

I excluded Spock and Tuvok because they are main cast members , and as such were always (at least in the eras of television in which these series were made) going to be written to be likable or to be somewhat unique or different from other representatives of their races. It's the secondary characters, the guest characters, the recurring ones, etc., who are usually used to show us what the entire people and culture is like. Heck, even by the time we got to the xenophobic Enterprise Vulcans the same thing was done with T'Pol: her people and culture were one way, but she was a bit different.

[Fianna]

A lot can be chalked up to different ways of communicating. Vulcans don't engage in small talk or pleasantries, and they state facts and opinions bluntly, without concern for how those affect others' feelings, because in Vulcan society, that's a non-issue.

Like when some Vulcans are welcomed aboard the Enterprise, and they describe the ship as "adequate". And Picard, who is well-versed in Vulcan culture, recognizes that not as a dismissive statement, but as a mark of approval: the Enterprise is adequate to the purposes for which it was designed, which is exactly what you'd hope it would be.

[Lazerlike42]

A lot can be chalked up to different ways of communicating. Vulcans don't engage in small talk or pleasantries, and they state facts and opinions bluntly, without concern for how those affect others' feelings, because in Vulcan society, that's a non-issue.

Like when some Vulcans are welcomed aboard the Enterprise, and they describe the ship as "adequate". And Picard, who is well-versed in Vulcan culture, recognizes that not as a dismissive statement, but as a mark of approval: the Enterprise is adequate to the purposes for which it was designed, which is exactly what you'd hope it would be.

I think this is true, but there's a lot more to it in the sense that Vulcans have, from the very beginning, clearly been a lot more emotional than is officially suggested. Spock clearly found McCoy irritating and all sorts of things amusing. Now he was half human, of course, but then there's Sarek, who clearly felt resentment or betrayal or bitterness or some combination of genuine negative emotions regarding/towards Spock. Tuvok clearly gets annoyed at Neelix and others on occasion, he (like Spock) clearly takes offense at some things, he clearly exhibits all sorts of other emotions at different times. Just about every Vulcan that's on screen for more than a few minutes does likewise. It's almost always clear that they're controlling the emotions and that the emotions are coming across in a more subdued way, but they're unquestionably there.

Now to a point, this is not necessarily out of step with what Vulcans officially say about themselves: they've never claimed to be truly without emotion, only that they control them very well. Still, it's clear time and time again that Vulcans actions are driven by those beneath the surface emotions.

[clearspira]

A lot can be chalked up to different ways of communicating. Vulcans don't engage in small talk or pleasantries, and they state facts and opinions bluntly, without concern for how those affect others' feelings, because in Vulcan society, that's a non-issue.

Like when some Vulcans are welcomed aboard the Enterprise, and they describe the ship as "adequate". And Picard, who is well-versed in Vulcan culture, recognizes that not as a dismissive statement, but as a mark of approval: the Enterprise is adequate to the purposes for which it was designed, which is exactly what you'd hope it would be.

I think this is true, but there's a lot more to it in the sense that Vulcans have, from the very beginning, clearly been a lot more emotional than is officially suggested. Spock clearly found McCoy irritating and all sorts of things amusing. Now he was half human, of course, but then there's Sarek, who clearly felt resentment or betrayal or bitterness or some combination of genuine negative emotions regarding/towards Spock. Tuvok clearly gets annoyed at Neelix and others on occasion, he (like Spock) clearly takes offense at some things, he clearly exhibits all sorts of other emotions at different times. Just about every Vulcan that's on screen for more than a few minutes does likewise. It's almost always clear that they're controlling the emotions and that the emotions are coming across in a more subdued way, but they're unquestionably there.

Now to a point, this is not necessarily out of step with what Vulcans officially say about themselves: they've never claimed to be truly without emotion, only that they control them very well. Still, it's clear time and time again that Vulcans actions are driven by those beneath the surface emotions.

The VOY episode ''Gravity'' is good one for getting an insight into Vulcan emotion where Tuvok is sent to a Vulcan master to help control his emotions.

Vulcan master to Tuvok: ''Love is the most dangerous emotion of all. It produces many other emotions: jealousy, shame, rage, grief. You must learn to suppress them all, otherwise they will consume you. [later, after months of training] You are now prepared to return to the world: grief, anger, fear and especially love will never threaten you again.''

This may be an arguable statement to us (although there are many INCELs who could do with a dose of Vulcan logic but i digress) but not to a Vulcan as the TOS episode ''All of Yesterdays'' shows when Spock is reverted back to a pre-Surak Vulcan and is willing to kill McCoy over the love of a woman. A decent Vulcan story does not deny the existence of emotion, it actually shows us why Surak went the route that he did because Vulcans naturally have insanely violent emotions. They are so powerful that each and every Vulcan has the potential to be Ted Bundy.

The Stone of Gol from TNG: ''Gambit'' also demonstrates this. A weapon powered by anger.

[CharlesPhipps]

The Vulcans have always been xenophobic dicks and the Klingons have never been honourable. The problem is Spock, Tuvok and Worf. Who let's note, one is half human, one has a human best friend in Janeway, and one was raised by humans.

All of the outliers in these races have been influenced by humans.

It actually makes sense when you think about it. Why would the Vulcans and Klingons have to write and spend vast amounts of their time on making their people logical/honorable if they weren't naturally the exact opposite?

[drewder]

I'd point out that Spock took it as a given that Vulcans were inherently superior to humans and pointed it out at every opportunity.

[Madner Kami]

I'd point out that Spock took it as a given that Vulcans were inherently superior to humans and pointed it out at every opportunity.

Plus Spock was the first Vulcan and not even a full-blooded Vulcan in Starfleet in the first place, even though the Federation was established a houndred years prior. There's definitly a racial bias going on, outside of early installment wierdness, like Starfleet not actually being the Federation's military arm, but explicitly the United Earth's Star Fleet.

[clearspira]

I'd point out that Spock took it as a given that Vulcans were inherently superior to humans and pointed it out at every opportunity.

Remember "Encounter at Farpoint" where Data states that he is superior to humans? He wasn't being racist. He was merely stating the truth as an emotionless being would.

Same with Vulcans. Better in every way except for perhaps the Ponn Farr. Stronger, faster, smarter, even biologically. Sunny day? Inner eyelid. Thin atmosphere? Bigger lungs. They are just stating the truth. Difference is of course that Vulcans aren't truly emotionless. So when Pulsaki taunts Data it comes off as bullying, when McCoy taunts Spock or Paris taunts Tuvok it comes off as friends ribbing each other.

That's where they failed with T'Pol and the baseball Vulcans from DS9. They really do come off as racists.