Day of Honor - Voyager

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v872.php

[stryke]

Poor Ethan Phillips being paused like that at 3:48 to look as dumb as possible.

[FaxModem1]

With a Bio on Torres as well. After the Doctor and Seven, I feel like B'elanna was the most fleshed out character on Voyager.

[stryke]

I think it's a toss up between B'elanna and Tom Paris for that.

Chakotay is of course dead last and that was probably inevitable as soon as they hired a con man to help work out his character.

[McAvoy]

I think it's a toss up between B'elanna and Tom Paris for that.

Chakotay is of course dead last and that was probably inevitable as soon as they hired a con man to help work out his character.

Not sure. Tom Paris really didn't change that much. Yeah in season 7 he was less willing to take risks due to having a kid on the way. Belanna to me was kind of the same throughout the series.

Obviously the only ones that truly changed was Seven and the Doctor. The rest were nearly static or erratic through out the series.

I mean what did Tom Paris do different in let's say Season 5 than Season 2 for example?

[Sir Will]

I think it's a toss up between B'elanna and Tom Paris for that.

Chakotay is of course dead last and that was probably inevitable as soon as they hired a con man to help work out his character.

Not sure. Tom Paris really didn't change that much. Yeah in season 7 he was less willing to take risks due to having a kid on the way. Belanna to me was kind of the same throughout the series.

Obviously the only ones that truly changed was Seven and the Doctor. The rest were nearly static or erratic through out the series.

I mean what did Tom Paris do different in let's say Season 5 than Season 2 for example?

The other guy said fleshed out. And Tom got many stories. And he did mature during the first couple seasons. After that he was just a great character.

I think Harry's the least fleshed out. They never really knew what to do with him.

[stryke]

I mean what did Tom Paris do different in let's say Season 5 than Season 2 for example?

Season 2 he was doing his throwback to criminal Paris days as part of the plan to flush out the traitor for a start, and that whole unfortunate jealousy arc with Neelix. Hoo-boy that was rough.

Season 1 he was even worse where he was basically Riker Two but without the smarts or most of the charm.

Season 4/5/6 was when he really got the character love, from his renaissance man amount of skills, his continuing love of history, from his struggle with worklife balance, the arc with his dad (seriously his reaction to seeing him in Pathfinder might be the single best reaction shot in the whole series, and all the more meaningful after Thirty Days), his demotion, then re-promotion, and of course the whole Torres relationship.

As to Harry Kim I wish they killed him in Scorpion or left him as an alien from the planet of the women with big sticks. He got Timeless at least which is an excellent episode, and a poor attempt was made with Nightingale but that's it.

(Edit: Happened to be listening to the Delta Flyers episode on Hunters from s4 an hour or so after making this comment, and man I'd entirely forgotten what a nihilist Paris was to the whole idea of the alpha quadrant in general and having any kind of connections back there that might matter. Also a rare, rare, oh so rare good Harry moment where he tells Paris off for being so insensitive to him when he's seriously hurting.)

[clearspira]

I mean what did Tom Paris do different in let's say Season 5 than Season 2 for example?

Season 2 he was doing his throwback to criminal Paris days as part of the plan to flush out the traitor for a start, and that whole unfortunate jealousy arc with Neelix. Hoo-boy that was rough.

Season 1 he was even worse where he was basically Riker Two but without the smarts or most of the charm.

Season 4/5/6 was when he really got the character love, from his renaissance man amount of skills, his continuing love of history, from his struggle with worklife balance, the arc with his dad (seriously his reaction to seeing him in Pathfinder might be the single best reaction shot in the whole series, and all the more meaningful after Thirty Days), his demotion, then re-promotion, and of course the whole Torres relationship.

As to Harry Kim I wish they killed him in Scorpion or left him as an alien from the planet of the women with big sticks. He got Timeless at least which is an excellent episode, and a poor attempt was made with Nightingale but that's it.

(Edit: Happened to be listening to the Delta Flyers episode on Hunters from s4 an hour or so after making this comment, and man I'd entirely forgotten what a nihilist Paris was to the whole idea of the alpha quadrant in general and having any kind of connections back there that might matter. Also a rare, rare, oh so rare good Harry moment where he tells Paris off for being so insensitive to him when he's seriously hurting.)

Speaking of the podcast, McNeill is pretty vocal about how much he dislikes season 1 and 2 Paris.

[clearspira]

Its kind of funny in retrospect that Voyager did more with the ''Torres V Seven'' subplot than they did with the entire ''Starfleet and Maquis being thrown onto one ship'' concept that the show was based upon.

I will say though that whenever I go back to the ''Seven in a silver catsuit era'' I am always taken aback by the Early Instalment Weirdness of her character, being portrayed more like a little girl in a grown woman's body than the drill sergeant with a soft heart she is portrayed as later on. I can see why they went for this characterisation given her backstory, but I can also see why the writers decided that having a someone with a stunted mental age wearing that outfit and being lusted after by every guy she meets presents certain... questions. Harry in particular does not come off in a good light.

[stryke]

Speaking of the podcast, McNeill is pretty vocal about how much he dislikes season 1 and 2 Paris.

I've been bouncing around listening to the episodes that I think would be more interesting. Sure I'll get to those in time. Been amused how hardline Garret Wang is on his 'the Doctor is a toaster' attitude. Could have been something characterization wise if they made Kim A.I-phobic ala Pulaski but I figure that would have made him even more unlikable.

Harry in particular does not come off in a good light.

I think I could count the number of times that Harry does come off in a good line using just my fingers.