Mirror, Mirror vs Yesterday's Enterprise vs Far Beyond the Stars vs Living Witness

[Durandal_1707]

But our guys are the same in this reality, aren't they? Well no, they aren't. At the end of the episode, in the restored original timeline, Janeway does the reasonable thing when told the region is in dispute and redirects the ship to go around it instead of through it, like we'd expect. The Janeway at the beginning? She sees the dispute, and basically says screw you, your guns are smaller than ours, we're going through. Might makes right, and we'll do what we want. It's a subtle difference, but it's there; our "normal" crew would have at least listened to the Krenim and considered their point, despite them being weaker then they were.

So yeah but Groundhogs Day. It's a time loop in which his personal development magically transforms in the outset of one day thousands of times over. Nobody has ever referred to it as a construct of alternate reality.

Physical reality is changed in this episode, and the characters inevitably end up being a part of that manipulation. It even goes so far as to beg into the the theme quite significantly. But them being part of it is not the premise of the episode, and it also happens to not be an issue throughout the plot.

Another thing is that we're specifically seeing the change happen in the character. With all the other examples there's no precept to their alternate counterparts. Not as we see it, and/or not based in our reality (or dimension for all intents and purposes).

All the change in Groundhog Day was driven by the character, though. Anything that happened different was only in response to something different that he did. The characters in YOH, however, are being reshaped by events that happen millions of years before they are born. If Yesterday's Enterprise counts, then this definitely should.

[McAvoy]

Does the Time Machine affect time?

Does the Time Machine creates alternate realities when it erases a civilization?

Did the destruction of the Time Machine create an different reality where the Time Machine isn't built?

Is the new timeline different than what happened before the destruction of the Time Machine?

Okay, so considering what the main antagonist is doing in the episode, handwaving the presence of alternate reality is rather trite. I apologize.

So, my main consideration of alternate reality specifically had to do with the characters essentially not being who they are in the show. So obviously that's dubious as to being an all encompassing stylization of the genre en masse.

What's the difference between one year and 20 years?

Year of Hell made the characters change. Who knows what the surviving characters would be after another 19 years post Year of Hell.

Yesterday's Enterprise basically has an alternate reality that starts with Enterprise-C disappearing. Thus somehow starting a war with the Klingons. Which means 20 years prior the TNG characters were the same as they are in the main timeline. Until that point. Then it all changed.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Does the Time Machine affect time?

Does the Time Machine creates alternate realities when it erases a civilization?

Did the destruction of the Time Machine create an different reality where the Time Machine isn't built?

Is the new timeline different than what happened before the destruction of the Time Machine?

Okay, so considering what the main antagonist is doing in the episode, handwaving the presence of alternate reality is rather trite. I apologize.

So, my main consideration of alternate reality specifically had to do with the characters essentially not being who they are in the show. So obviously that's dubious as to being an all encompassing stylization of the genre en masse.

What's the difference between one year and 20 years?

Year of Hell made the characters change. Who knows what the surviving characters would be after another 19 years post Year of Hell.

Yesterday's Enterprise basically has an alternate reality that starts with Enterprise-C disappearing. Thus somehow starting a war with the Klingons. Which means 20 years prior the TNG characters were the same as they are in the main timeline. Until that point. Then it all changed.

I'm not sure the amount of span has anything to do with it. The change you're referring to isn't different from any character development we see in literally every other episode. They go on a death defying mission and there is a moral to learn upon. YOH just does that backwards with their time machine. It's not disqualified from alternate realities as a genre as far as I care, but the premise in no way involves the characters being whom they are not.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

But our guys are the same in this reality, aren't they? Well no, they aren't. At the end of the episode, in the restored original timeline, Janeway does the reasonable thing when told the region is in dispute and redirects the ship to go around it instead of through it, like we'd expect. The Janeway at the beginning? She sees the dispute, and basically says screw you, your guns are smaller than ours, we're going through. Might makes right, and we'll do what we want. It's a subtle difference, but it's there; our "normal" crew would have at least listened to the Krenim and considered their point, despite them being weaker then they were.

So yeah but Groundhogs Day. It's a time loop in which his personal development magically transforms in the outset of one day thousands of times over. Nobody has ever referred to it as a construct of alternate reality.

Physical reality is changed in this episode, and the characters inevitably end up being a part of that manipulation. It even goes so far as to beg into the the theme quite significantly. But them being part of it is not the premise of the episode, and it also happens to not be an issue throughout the plot.

Another thing is that we're specifically seeing the change happen in the character. With all the other examples there's no precept to their alternate counterparts. Not as we see it, and/or not based in our reality (or dimension for all intents and purposes).

All the change in Groundhog Day was driven by the character, though. Anything that happened different was only in response to something different that he did. The characters in YOH, however, are being reshaped by events that happen millions of years before they are born. If Yesterday's Enterprise counts, then this definitely should.

The characters are completely aware of it and are dealing with it with as much as the audience.

[McAvoy]

Does the Time Machine affect time?

Does the Time Machine creates alternate realities when it erases a civilization?

Did the destruction of the Time Machine create an different reality where the Time Machine isn't built?

Is the new timeline different than what happened before the destruction of the Time Machine?

Okay, so considering what the main antagonist is doing in the episode, handwaving the presence of alternate reality is rather trite. I apologize.

So, my main consideration of alternate reality specifically had to do with the characters essentially not being who they are in the show. So obviously that's dubious as to being an all encompassing stylization of the genre en masse.

What's the difference between one year and 20 years?

Year of Hell made the characters change. Who knows what the surviving characters would be after another 19 years post Year of Hell.

Yesterday's Enterprise basically has an alternate reality that starts with Enterprise-C disappearing. Thus somehow starting a war with the Klingons. Which means 20 years prior the TNG characters were the same as they are in the main timeline. Until that point. Then it all changed.

I'm not sure the amount of span has anything to do with it. The change you're referring to isn't different from any character development we see in literally every other episode. They go on a death defying mission and there is a moral to learn upon. YOH just does that backwards with their time machine. It's not disqualified from alternate realities as a genre as far as I care, but the premise in no way involves the characters being whom they are not.

Time doesn't have anything to do with it. That's the point. YE and YOH are the same thing from the standpoint that both show a different version of the main timeline.

Then it gets reset in the end. YE is back to mostly the same as where they were at the beginning. Same goes for Voyager.

Yes, YE is a form of time traveling. YOH not so much but still has time involved. Just as a weapon.

I think Year of Hell counts as an alternate reality.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

.

I think Year of Hell counts as an alternate reality.

Aside from my initial response, I've only been concerned with the comparison of the episodes, taking into account my reconsideration of YoH genre-wise.

Still though, the basis I've been stating for the characters of the episodes I was comparing doesn't have much to do with Year of Hell.