Frustration wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 12:06 am
I do wonder what the series would have been like if JMS had felt certain there would be a fifth season, and thus didn't compress it into the fourth (and then had to improvise a fifth season for TNT).
He's talked about this at length. Largely, it would have been the same.
The war with the Shadows still would have ended where it did in the middle of season 4. The big difference is the tail end of season four. The season finale would have been what is now episode 18, the one where Sheridan is interrogated. The fight with earth would still have resolved three or four episodes into season 5.
"The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" which is the current season 4 finale, probably wouldn't exist, or at least not in the same way, as it was largely invented to fill the gap where the original season 4/series finale sat after they got approved for season 5.
Season 5 was *always* intended to be a aftermath season, a long epilogue. JMS is pretty open about stuff like LotR being an major inspiration, and that has a really really lengthy epilogue talking about the aftereffects o war as well. (Basically the entire second half of the last book is aftermath, the ring is actually finished pretty early.)
It feels stretched mostly because the Byron telepath story goes way too long so the first half of the season is iffy, but the second half with all the Londo and Gkar stuff is great.
The actual most significant change had they KNOWN there was going to be a season 5 might be that Claudia Christian MIGHT have stuck around as Ivonova for the season. Her not coming back was an entire kerfluffle that MIGHT have been avoided were contracts settled in advance and season 5 greenlit earlier... but most discussions from the time point to her wanting to leave and do movies at that point and then blaming it on her agent, so who can say.
Considering the Bryon arc was supposed to also be the culmination of her telepath storyline, it makes sense that the Byron arc slogged... it was supposed to focus on TWO leads and instead it was only on one so it was just... pff.
I don't know if the Byron arc would have fared any better. Claudia Christian isn't that good of an actor in my opinion. The way she did her lines always felt hammy to me.
That's just me. The other half of the season was more interesting. I think the beginnings of the Telepath War in hindsight would have served better as a B plot to the aftermath to Shadow War.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 4:28 am
I don't know if the Byron arc would have fared any better. Claudia Christian isn't that good of an actor in my opinion. The way she did her lines always felt hammy to me.
It would have been better sheerly on the merit of focusing on two of the leads, rather than just the one. It was like 10 episodes basically dedicated to just Leetah and that's why it feels so padded and drawn out.
Also notably, if they had KNOWN Claudia was leaving, JMS would *not* have killed Marcus.
A lot of the early jank of the season was being down two leads so a lot of build up and chemistry was just... gone. There were also other problems like JMS losing his notes and having to reconstruct the season from scratch.
Hindsight its easy to see what the problems and fixes were, but overall, if they HAD known one or two things the season would have ended up very different, even if the overall pacing didn't change much.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 4:28 am
I don't know if the Byron arc would have fared any better. Claudia Christian isn't that good of an actor in my opinion. The way she did her lines always felt hammy to me.
It would have been better sheerly on the merit of focusing on two of the leads, rather than just the one. It was like 10 episodes basically dedicated to just Leetah and that's why it feels so padded and drawn out.
Also notably, if they had KNOWN Claudia was leaving, JMS would *not* have killed Marcus.
A lot of the early jank of the season was being down two leads so a lot of build up and chemistry was just... gone. There were also other problems like JMS losing his notes and having to reconstruct the season from scratch.
Hindsight its easy to see what the problems and fixes were, but overall, if they HAD known one or two things the season would have ended up very different, even if the overall pacing didn't change much.
I just rewatched B5. Technically. Listened as I drive 180 minutes round trip to work each day. So I put it on my phone and listen. Seen it enough times that I can listen to the dialogue and know in my mind the scene.
Anyway, I am not really sure what Marcus being alive what would do for Season 5. There isn't much for him unlike having let's say Claudia stay around for season 5 and do the same role that Lochley had.
Byron I doubt would change. He would be just as bad as we know now. Relatively speaking. He was bad because we used to wait a week or more for the next episode. So we had to stew with Byron. And no one liked him.
If it was up to me, I would cut down on the poetry. Maybe he himself learn more about the mundanes too.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:34 am
Byron I doubt would change. He would be just as bad as we know now. Relatively speaking. He was bad because we used to wait a week or more for the next episode. So we had to stew with Byron. And no one liked him.
If it was up to me, I would cut down on the poetry. Maybe he himself learn more about the mundanes too.
I dunno, I first saw B5 well after the original air date, by binging DVDs from the local library, and Byron was still plenty annoying.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:34 am
Byron I doubt would change. He would be just as bad as we know now. Relatively speaking. He was bad because we used to wait a week or more for the next episode. So we had to stew with Byron. And no one liked him.
If it was up to me, I would cut down on the poetry. Maybe he himself learn more about the mundanes too.
I dunno, I first saw B5 well after the original air date, by binging DVDs from the local library, and Byron was still plenty annoying.
Yeah. First aired he was even worse because you had stew in the bullshit he spewed.
I think if he was written less of some poetry spewing character it may have been better. It may be just me but when someone one can recite poetry or lines of Shakespeare word for word just always feels off for me.
I think if he was more empathic somehow to the 'mudanes' would have worked. Remember the viewers are all mundanes, so when he goes off on mundanes it's an attack on us. The viewer.
Bester the character doesn't get that hate because if you really think about it, he doesn't really actively spew that sort of anti-mundane things that Byron does.
We all know Beater thinks that sort of thing. We are better. On top of that we already know he is a bad guy. Byron is supposed to be a good guy.
McAvoy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:35 am
I think if he was more empathic somehow to the 'mudanes' would have worked. Remember the viewers are all mundanes, so when he goes off on mundanes it's an attack on us. The viewer.
Bester the character doesn't get that hate because if you really think about it, he doesn't really actively spew that sort of anti-mundane things that Byron does.
We all know Beater thinks that sort of thing. We are better. On top of that we already know he is a bad guy. Byron is supposed to be a good guy.
He was also the worst sort of example for the kind of person he was defending. It doesn't invalidate his points, but it makes it insufferable in a story to watch him making people hate him and the other telepaths and ultimately do things to justify the mutual distrust and hatred. Worse, since the show never really seemed to realize it was making this particular characterization, the disconnect between how the show felt towards him versus how the audience perceived him creates a dissonance that is strongly felt. That isn't where the tragedy of Byron's story was meant to be, so it falls flat emotionally and just grinds the gears of the story.
