The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[CmdrKing]

I explained that in a chat yesterday and someone else chipped in with this.

“ If you come home from the carnival with the big huge teddy bear, that's at least something, even if you spent 100 tickets constantly playing the game and wildly overpaying for the prize.”

And it captures the feel nicely. Putin’s in full sunk cost “even if I have to spend thousands of times what it’s worth I have to have a stuffed bear to bring home!” mode.

[hammerofglass]

I would like to expland that analogy: what you actually wanted was to impress the young man running the booth by how easily you won the big prize, and then you beaned him with your first throw.

[Frustration]

And tore a ligament in your shoulder that will probably never heal and is likely to cripple you for life.

[clearspira]

https://news.sky.com/story/released-ukr ... s-12709279

Trigger warning for graphic descriptions of torture.

Basically, every story you ever heard about German and Japanese POW camps in WW2? Those stories that you hoped were consigned to history? Yeah. Still happening in 2022. This should be all the proof you need about how far we have come in the West over the last 75 years compared to shitholes like Russia.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I’ve seen a video of castration.

That’s a new one for me.

[Frustration]

It's worth noting that the West, or at least the United States, has officially taken several steps backwards by approving the torture - excuse me, the 'enhanced interrogation' - of captive prisoners.

I realize that it's nowhere near like what the Russians are practicing, but there's no point in being self-congratulatory because it "can't happen here".

[Riedquat]

It's worth noting that the West, or at least the United States, has officially taken several steps backwards by approving the torture - excuse me, the 'enhanced interrogation' - of captive prisoners.

I realize that it's nowhere near like what the Russians are practicing, but there's no point in being self-congratulatory because it "can't happen here".

Whilst it's worth condemning appalling behaviour wherever it happens be very, VERY careful of heading down the "this lot is crap so they're all the same really" path. When it comes to the sort of sh1te Putin's pushing for the poor behaviour of others being brought up is entirely irrelevant.

[Frustration]

On the contrary, it is entirely relevant that we've taken several steps down the slippery slope that eventually makes us like Putin. That in no way lessens the seriousness of what Putin has been doing.

To return to the topic: did it truly never occur to Putin that losing the good opinion of the world would cost Russia far more than it could possibly gain in any annexation? Especially for a nation so dependent on trade.

[Riedquat]

To return to the topic: did it truly never occur to Putin that losing the good opinion of the world would cost Russia far more than it could possibly gain in any annexation? Especially for a nation so dependent on trade.

Quite possibly not. Consider the environment he's created, where he only ever gets to hear what he wants to hear. Someone in that position can end up with a very twisted, inaccurate understanding of the world. He probably expected a bit of token finger waving at the most (since annexing Crimea never got him much more than that), and probably doesn't understand why more civilised countries are so disgusted with his behaviour. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks they'd all really be just as bad in the same circumstances and just act appalled for political reasons. Some people are completely incapable of understanding how anyone could think differently to themselves.

[Frustration]

Well, pretty much all nations ARE hypocrites. The key is realizing that the things that they're hypocrites about vary wildly, and they will honestly condemn all sorts of actions while turning a blind eye to behaviors which ought to be, but aren't by them, considered equally heinous.

See also: why the two world wars are considered so awful, largely because it was European nations that were devastated by them. The Chinese genuinely don't understand why the world doesn't view the British Empire's forced importation of opium as an atrocity but objects to how it treats ethnic minorities within its own territory. A large part of the problem is temporal synchronization - there are many things that European-derived nations did and came to view as morally offensive that they now condemn others for doing. It's not quite "rules for thee but not me" because the 'me' in question is generations in the past.

As always, the wheel turns...