Durandal_1707 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:33 pm
Admittedly it's been over a decade at this point, but that's the opposite of what I remember about Martha. I really liked her, especially comparing to Rose, specifically because she was so much more capable and clear-headed. Most of the time when she's in a crisis situation, instead of freaking out and panicking like I was expecting after two years of Rose, she'd just immediately pull out a manual and start work on figuring things out. If a bad guy was posing as a friend to get information, she'd always pick up on it right away and not give away the game. There were at least two episodes in which the Doctor became incapacitated and Martha had to save the damn universe all on her own, and she did it. Admittedly after she left, she did tend to get stuck in the "damsel in distress" role when she made cameos in Donna's season, due to the writers wanting to give Donna the spotlight.
Anyway, the thing that was annoying about Martha was that RTD couldn't resist making her have a crush on the Doctor. And also that the Doctor kept treating her like crap. What was up with that anyway?
Perhaps some day I will go back and rewatch it and see which of us is more correct. It's been around 5 years since I've seen it, though my wife, who watched it with me, felt as I did, very strongly that Martha didn't seem to do anything other than get in danger and get rescued.
In any event, the reason the Doctor treated her the way he did is more certain. The idea was that he and Rose had fallen in love with one another and of course he had lost her forever into the other universe and so he was still in mourning, especially towards the beginning of the season. It was as far as I know very intentional that Martha had a crush on him and that he not only didn't feel the same way but that he also had a kind of bitterness or anger that he was taking out on her. He was meant to be a conflicted person at the time: all at once wanting to someone to replace Rose as his traveling companion and also hating anyone who might have been in that position because they weren't Rose.
Frustration wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:49 pm
Trying for the nostalgia angle for the people for whom Tennant was the first Doctor they knew.
My views on modern Dr Who are well known. But this REALLY does stink of desperation. They must have paid Tennant a fortune to get him back because he still has a strong non-Who career. He's not like most of the other actors who you never hear of again. Tennant, Smith, Piper and Gillan are Who's biggest modern success stories by a mile. John Barrowman maybe, he's faded a lot though.
As an aside, i'm not sure how much love there still is for Ten. He's not hated don't get me wrong. But a lot of modern reviews of this version of the Doctor paint him as a self-righteous prick given his actions with Torchwood and Prime Minister Jones. Some even paint him as a coward given both his whiny last words and the fact that he wasted a regeneration just to keep going. Him coming back as Fourteen is just going to enhance that feeling. I'm just not sure that this is going to be the ratings winner the BBC is hoping for.
Durandal_1707 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:33 pm
Admittedly it's been over a decade at this point, but that's the opposite of what I remember about Martha. I really liked her, especially comparing to Rose, specifically because she was so much more capable and clear-headed. Most of the time when she's in a crisis situation, instead of freaking out and panicking like I was expecting after two years of Rose, she'd just immediately pull out a manual and start work on figuring things out. If a bad guy was posing as a friend to get information, she'd always pick up on it right away and not give away the game. There were at least two episodes in which the Doctor became incapacitated and Martha had to save the damn universe all on her own, and she did it. Admittedly after she left, she did tend to get stuck in the "damsel in distress" role when she made cameos in Donna's season, due to the writers wanting to give Donna the spotlight.
Anyway, the thing that was annoying about Martha was that RTD couldn't resist making her have a crush on the Doctor. And also that the Doctor kept treating her like crap. What was up with that anyway?
I think Martha was a very strong companion. Smart, brave, competent. Good actress too. Problem is, if there is any modern companion who would fail the Bechdel Test, its Martha Jones.
And as I just wrote in my previous post... yeah... Ten has been reevaluated by many as a prick. His treatment of Martha is one of them. In retrospect, Matt Smith's Eleven is far more what I imagine a lot of people THINK Ten to be. By which I mean, there's this perception of Ten being this ''cheeky clown with a serious side'' by people who haven't watched the show in a while, but that is very much Eleven's characterisation. Ten's characterisation is that of a ''good man destroyed by PTSD who now thinks of himself as a god and needs humans to teach him otherwise.''
Frustration wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:49 pm
Trying for the nostalgia angle for the people for whom Tennant was the first Doctor they knew.
My views on modern Dr Who are well known. But this REALLY does stink of desperation. They must have paid Tennant a fortune to get him back because he still has a strong non-Who career. He's not like most of the other actors who you never hear of again. Tennant, Smith, Piper and Gillan are Who's biggest modern success stories by a mile. John Barrowman maybe, he's faded a lot though.
As an aside, i'm not sure how much love there still is for Ten. He's not hated don't get me wrong. But a lot of modern reviews of this version of the Doctor paint him as a self-righteous prick given his actions with Torchwood and Prime Minister Jones. Some even paint him as a coward given both his whiny last words and the fact that he wasted a regeneration just to keep going. Him coming back as Fourteen is just going to enhance that feeling. I'm just not sure that this is going to be the ratings winner the BBC is hoping for.
Most of the people I know personally consider ten their favorite, and I haven't really seen much negative said about him when reading or listening to people write about Dr. Who online. You're right that people do point out these character flaws with him, but I don't think people look down on him for these things much because the whole underlying theme of the RTD years Doctor was that he was a broken, even a traumatized (as in PTSD level stuff) man who had very dark elements to his personality as a result. That was the whole point of The Waters of Mars as a leadup to the Christmas/New Years specials where he regenerated into Matt Smith's Doctor. It's meant to show us the Doctor finally giving in completely to the darkness before, realizing what he has done and what this means, he finally gives up his "life" and regenerates into Eleven, who starts to "heal," not completely, but a little bit.
Y'know, the biggest problem with declaring that the Doctor has infinite regenerations is that, combined with the precedent of Ten regenerating into himself, there's now no reason why the Doctor can't just regenerate into a current version, meaning there's no narrative risk attached to death at all.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Frustration wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:49 pm
Trying for the nostalgia angle for the people for whom Tennant was the first Doctor they knew.
My views on modern Dr Who are well known. But this REALLY does stink of desperation. They must have paid Tennant a fortune to get him back because he still has a strong non-Who career. He's not like most of the other actors who you never hear of again. Tennant, Smith, Piper and Gillan are Who's biggest modern success stories by a mile. John Barrowman maybe, he's faded a lot though.
You'd be surprised on Tennant's price tag for this. He's a life-long fan of the series, to the point of having a few roles in early Big Finish and he's probably the strongest rep for the Modern Doctors in the BF ranges, right now (with Eccleston gaining right behind him). It wouldn't surprise me if he took less than his usual rate for this one.
Frustration wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:49 pm
Trying for the nostalgia angle for the people for whom Tennant was the first Doctor they knew.
My views on modern Dr Who are well known. But this REALLY does stink of desperation. They must have paid Tennant a fortune to get him back because he still has a strong non-Who career. He's not like most of the other actors who you never hear of again. Tennant, Smith, Piper and Gillan are Who's biggest modern success stories by a mile. John Barrowman maybe, he's faded a lot though.
You'd be surprised on Tennant's price tag for this. He's a life-long fan of the series, to the point of having a few roles in early Big Finish and he's probably the strongest rep for the Modern Doctors in the BF ranges, right now (with Eccleston gaining right behind him). It wouldn't surprise me if he took less than his usual rate for this one.
IT probably helps he not doing a full proper season but like a few specials.
Frustration wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:22 am
The Doctor can take any mortal wound, and remain themselves, as long as their regeneration isn't interrupted.
Lame.
Decapitations, disintegrations, drowning, Time Lord tech, black holes. There ARE ways to properly put The Doctor down, they just won't use them because it would END THE SHOW.
"I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking 'Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!'" When I am writing in this font, I am writing in my moderator voice.
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