Puss in Boots: The Last Wish: The Death Wolf Yet ANOTHER Example of How Kylo Ren Could Have Been Done Right

[Winter]

Who knew that there would be so many cartoon characters I would use as examples of how the Grandson of Darth Vader could have been done right.

If Catra is Kylo as a Villain Turned Hero and Hunter (The Owl House) is Kylo as a innocent manipulated into Evil then the Death Wolf from Puss in Boots 2 is Kylo as a relentless Predator. Imagine, for a moment that we never see Kylo for most of The Force Awakens, like he is almost completely absent for most of acts 1 and 2, only appearing at a few moments here and there (first during Poe's interrogation and the second when he captures Rey.

Other then that he is more talked about and the fear that fills everyone is present in how they talk about him. He's a Jedi hunter, someone who wields the Dark Side of the Force like no other. He has no known master, and no true alliance with the First Order and only seems to be interested in hunting down the Jedi or anyone who might be a Jedi. He stalks them from the Shadows and though you may not know much of him you know that if he comes for you it means your death. Few have seen him and fewer have lived to tell the tale and most of them die soon after.

Where he came from is unknown and some say he IS the Dark Side made Flesh. And now he's after Rey.

Just imagine that, this isn't Vader who has a whole army to command, or Palpatine who can manipulate the whole galaxy this is just one person with one goal, the Death of the Jedi and the only answer as to why his that he sees them as the only challenge for him.

The thing that bugs me with Kylo is that he has no real goal at all. He just goes from one motivation to another with sometimes no rhyme or reason whereas Catra, Hunter and the Death Wolf have goals that fit with their characters and all are simple and easy to understand. Catra wants Adora's love but thinks that what she really wants is the respect and fear of others, Hunter wants to impress his uncle and the Death Wolf wants Puss Dead because he found how he wasted 8 of his 9 lives offensive.

All three of these characters are great and Kylo could have been like any one of them but instead the writers just choose him to be whatever the plot needed at the moment.

Hell even Big Jack Horner is Kylo done right as a pathetic looser who has all the power to make him a threat.

[hammerofglass]

I think they needed to make exactly one change to Kylo to have done him right: Rey needs to have zero interest in him. Maybe even actively repulsed with a guilty bit of pity over how pathetic he is. Double down on the full Nice Guy tantrum throwing School Shooter Energy he was in TFA. I'll call it Tighten (from Megamind) Kylo.

Tighten Kylo meanders from one motivation to another with no rhyme or reason driven purely by the bitterness and self-loathing in his heart? Yep, that tracks. Desperately seeks approval from an uncaring father figure? Sure. Considered a useful idiot by the more ideological fascists, makes a terrible leader, tossed out for someone they actually like at the first opportunity? Makes sense.

Then have him still swap sides and die fighting the new leader at the last minute but have it be completely out of spite without learning a god-damned thing. The same way Hux died, come to think of it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Hammer that was very thorough and I enjoyed reading it, but that seems just a smidge on the nose for the portrayal of a modern fascist.

[clearspira]

I think they needed to make exactly one change to Kylo to have done him right: Rey needs to have zero interest in him. Maybe even actively repulsed with a guilty bit of pity over how pathetic he is. Double down on the full Nice Guy tantrum throwing School Shooter Energy he was in TFA. I'll call it Tighten (from Megamind) Kylo.

Tighten Kylo meanders from one motivation to another with no rhyme or reason driven purely by the bitterness and self-loathing in his heart? Yep, that tracks. Desperately seeks approval from an uncaring father figure? Sure. Considered a useful idiot by the more ideological fascists, makes a terrible leader, tossed out for someone they actually like at the first opportunity? Makes sense.

Then have him still swap sides and die fighting the new leader at the last minute but have it be completely out of spite without learning a god-damned thing. The same way Hux died, come to think of it.

Absolutely agree. TLJ follows on from TFA to the second. Which means that Rey goes from being tortured by Kylo and watching Kylo murder Han to getting flustered by his abs in literally a couple of hours. Its dumb, there is no other way to describe it. This woman should not feel anything for this man.

If there is a love story here, it should have been with Finn.

[Madner Kami]

I think they needed to make exactly one change to Kylo to have done him right: Rey needs to have zero interest in him. Maybe even actively repulsed with a guilty bit of pity over how pathetic he is. Double down on the full Nice Guy tantrum throwing School Shooter Energy he was in TFA. I'll call it Tighten (from Megamind) Kylo.

Tighten Kylo meanders from one motivation to another with no rhyme or reason driven purely by the bitterness and self-loathing in his heart? Yep, that tracks. Desperately seeks approval from an uncaring father figure? Sure. Considered a useful idiot by the more ideological fascists, makes a terrible leader, tossed out for someone they actually like at the first opportunity? Makes sense.

Then have him still swap sides and die fighting the new leader at the last minute but have it be completely out of spite without learning a god-damned thing. The same way Hux died, come to think of it.

Absolutely agree. TLJ follows on from TFA to the second. Which means that Rey goes from being tortured by Kylo and watching Kylo murder Han to getting flustered by his abs in literally a couple of hours. Its dumb, there is no other way to describe it. This woman should not feel anything for this man.

If there is a love story here, it should have been with Finn.

Don't kink-shame! If that woman is into abusive man-child-murder-wannabe-dictator-dark-lords, that is her perogative, you mysogynist!

[Winter]

I think they needed to make exactly one change to Kylo to have done him right: Rey needs to have zero interest in him. Maybe even actively repulsed with a guilty bit of pity over how pathetic he is. Double down on the full Nice Guy tantrum throwing School Shooter Energy he was in TFA. I'll call it Tighten (from Megamind) Kylo.

I've mentioned before that one of my biggest issues with Rey is her sudden and out of nowhere interest in redeeming Kylo in TLJ. This is yet another thing this trilogy is copying from the Original Trilogy without really understanding it. Why does Luke want to redeem Vader, because he came to idolize his father and believed that there was good in him and felt he should at least try to bring him back to the light and had heard only good things about Anakin from Obi-Wan.

Why does Rey want to redeem Kylo? I mean, she's heard nothing about Ben Solo, what little she knows of Kylo comes ONLY from their interactions over the course of 20 minutes which included him killing one person she cares about, nearly killing her best friend and trying to torture her and insulting her at every opportunity.

The only defensive I've heard in regards to this is A) She grew up hearing the legend of how Luke redeemed Vader so she figures she can do the same and B) Because she sees him as a tortured soul who she can help bring back to the light.

If A that still doesn't explain WHY she wants to redeem him given all the crap he's put her through. Vader was Luke's father and he grew up wanting to know more about him and when he did it painted Anakin as this great man. If B, well, that honestly sounds kinda sexist since it sounds like "Well she's a girl, of course she's going to fall in love him".

Fans complain about the sudden romantic nature of the relationship in Rise of Skywalker but TLJ is just as guilty of this if not more so. We literally go from "I hate you! You're a Monster" too "He can be redeemed."

DID I MISS SOMETHING?!?!

There is no buildup to this, Rey just decides that she must redeem Kylo because I have no idea. It honestly feels like they didn't know what to do with Rey so he just had her be suddenly in love with Kylo to give her something to do.

[clearspira]

I think they needed to make exactly one change to Kylo to have done him right: Rey needs to have zero interest in him. Maybe even actively repulsed with a guilty bit of pity over how pathetic he is. Double down on the full Nice Guy tantrum throwing School Shooter Energy he was in TFA. I'll call it Tighten (from Megamind) Kylo.

I've mentioned before that one of my biggest issues with Rey is her sudden and out of nowhere interest in redeeming Kylo in TLJ. This is yet another thing this trilogy is copying from the Original Trilogy without really understanding it. Why does Luke want to redeem Vader, because he came to idolize his father and believed that there was good in him and felt he should at least try to bring him back to the light and had heard only good things about Anakin from Obi-Wan.

Why does Rey want to redeem Kylo? I mean, she's heard nothing about Ben Solo, what little she knows of Kylo comes ONLY from their interactions over the course of 20 minutes which included him killing one person she cares about, nearly killing her best friend and trying to torture her and insulting her at every opportunity.

The only defensive I've heard in regards to this is A) She grew up hearing the legend of how Luke redeemed Vader so she figures she can do the same and B) Because she sees him as a tortured soul who she can help bring back to the light.

If A that still doesn't explain WHY she wants to redeem him given all the crap he's put her through. Vader was Luke's father and he grew up wanting to know more about him and when he did it painted Anakin as this great man. If B, well, that honestly sounds kinda sexist since it sounds like "Well she's a girl, of course she's going to fall in love him".

Fans complain about the sudden romantic nature of the relationship in Rise of Skywalker but TLJ is just as guilty of this if not more so. We literally go from "I hate you! You're a Monster" too "He can be redeemed."

DID I MISS SOMETHING?!?!

There is no buildup to this, Rey just decides that she must redeem Kylo because I have no idea. It honestly feels like they didn't know what to do with Rey so he just had her be suddenly in love with Kylo to give her something to do.

A lot of effort went towards establishing Rey as a strong independent woman in TFA (remember the scene where Finn tries to grab her hand?) and yet TLJ rewrote her into someone who borderline fails the Bechdel Test. I'm not joking either, how many scenes that involve Rey do not involve her talking about Luke or Kylo?

TLJ should have been Rey seeking training from Luke and then having a showdown with Kylo. THEN, maybe, you could have done a redemption arc in TROS which is set many years afterwards.

That in retrospect is the biggest failure of the Sequels and they even admit this themselves: there was no plan. The original idea called for three different directors all writing their version of what the trilogy looks like on the hoof. I have never known a story to be written in such a way, its real amateur hour from a company as experienced as Disney and LucasFilm.

[hammerofglass]

Wait, when does Rey talk to another woman about ANYTHING in TLJ?

[Winter]

Wait, when does Rey talk to another woman about ANYTHING in TLJ?

Huh?

[hammerofglass]

Wait, when does Rey talk to another woman about ANYTHING in TLJ?

Huh?

Clearspira said she failed the Bechdel test because she only talks about men, but the test is talking to another woman about something other than a man. If I remember correctly she doesn't talk to another woman in that movie at all.