NYT's Nazi Next Door lost job, fled home

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Okay.

They aren't just 4-chan kooks. They are your preachers, your police officers, and your state representatives. Nazis are at the forefront, and they can easily draw on the manpower of the Klan and other white nationalist movements. Dismissing them as basement-dwelling freaks ignores the real threat here.

That rotten tangerine in charge is managing to wield massive power through consent of an entire major political party. Just imagine what will happen if a competent KKK-approved candidate wins.

Are you just trolling now? You should go outside for a while if you're that paranoid. It took 200 years to produce the Nazis, even the democratically elected president preceding Hitler was an aristocratic general. There have been SEVERAL "KKK-approved" presidents and none of them were equivalent to Hitler or the Kaiser or Bismarck or Frederick the Great.

To make it clear:

Germany:

1713-1919: authoritarian militarism (206 years), 1919-1933: democracy (14 years)

United States:

1789-present: ever increasing democracy (228 years)

ITS NOT THE SAME

I'm not trolling, and I'm not paranoid.

It looks like we're having two arguments here.

1. Was the Nazi state a result of an entrenched historical trend within Germany?

2. Are there actual, dangerous white nationalists in America, wielding real political power?

For number two, are you really asking me to produce a list? Because they've been in a lot of the news sources I'm watching. =/ I'm not trying to troll you, but I really do want to confirm that you're arguing in good faith and won't just dismiss or ignore them out of hand when I come up with the sources cited.

[GandALF]

Of course Prussia and Kaiserreich weren't identical to the Nazi regime. You can have Prussian militarism without Nazis but you can't have Nazis without Prussian militarism. The other factors like the great depression and Darwinian racial theories were big everywhere else including the U.S. but the main factor in why the Nazis came to power and the Silver Legion didn't is because the former had Prussian militarism to draw on.

Woodrow Wilson was pretty racist president, thought Birth of a Nation was a good movie. Not comparable to Hitler.

Are there racist elements in the U.S. government and society? Yes. Trump is a race baiter, Sessions has bad record, Steve Bannon is Steve Bannon.

Are they an all pervasive Nazi-equivalent threat that requires clamping down on free expression? No.To think so is McCarthyist style "red under every bed" paranoia. If there wasn't a Nazi takeover after the presidency of Woodrow Wilson there certainly isn't going to be one after the presidency of Barack Obama.

[TGLS]

Really, I suppose this all comes down to how much you buy into the "Luther to Hitler" view of German history. I won't deny the possibility that it could be true. On the other hand, who's to say that in a hundred years that another historian will be writing the "Washington to Deutscher" view of American history? I honestly doubt anyone living before Hitler came to power could see attempted genocide in the cards.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I didn't say anything about clamping down on free expression in this thread. I'm glad you're acknowledging powerful racists, but you need to recognize that they aren't just racists, they are >>Nazis<<. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

We don't need a Nazi takeover of the presidency because we already have a president who reads Breitbart, advocates concentration camps for Muslims, and was endorsed by the KKK.

I need you to acknowledge that Nazis, as a faction, have real political power in America, and their influence from public reputation to dragging the overton window in their direction is growing. Don't forget that our country founded Eugenics. If you dismiss them as harmless 4chan incels, you won't notice it until they've done irreparable damage to our nation's laws and the most vulnerable groups among us.

[Robovski]

The English came up with the term Eugenics, the term was coined by Francis Galton, the concept predates that to the Greeks more than 2000 years past. It was popularized by HG Wells amongst many other people. It caught on in the US in the 20th century until the term got its hash creamed out of it by the Nazis. So that's a factual inaccuracy to start with that I can document, let aside your giant claim that Nazis have ''real political power in America''. Maybe get some better information sources.

[GandALF]

I didn't say anything about clamping down on free expression in this thread. I'm glad you're acknowledging powerful racists, but you need to recognize that they aren't just racists, they are >>Nazis<<. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

We don't need a Nazi takeover of the presidency because we already have a president who reads Breitbart, advocates concentration camps for Muslims, and was endorsed by the KKK.

I need you to acknowledge that Nazis, as a faction, have real political power in America, and their influence from public reputation to dragging the overton window in their direction is growing. Don't forget that our country founded Eugenics. If you dismiss them as harmless 4chan incels, you won't notice it until they've done irreparable damage to our nation's laws and the most vulnerable groups among us.

So you're telling me that Trump, who's son-in-law and most senior adviser is an Orthodox Jewish businessman, who has his praises sung by Bibi Netanyahu and who wants to move the Israeli U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, does not just have a following of incoherent racists and delusional kooks who like it when he picks fights with Kaepernick and says "build a wall" but also a following of actual ideologically consistent Nazis who believe that Jews have been thwarting Aryan warriors with their slave morality and treachery ever since they left Egypt? What exactly is your definition of "Nazi"?

[G-Man]

I didn't say anything about clamping down on free expression in this thread. I'm glad you're acknowledging powerful racists, but you need to recognize that they aren't just racists, they are >>Nazis<<. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

We don't need a Nazi takeover of the presidency because we already have a president who reads Breitbart, advocates concentration camps for Muslims, and was endorsed by the KKK.

I need you to acknowledge that Nazis, as a faction, have real political power in America, and their influence from public reputation to dragging the overton window in their direction is growing. Don't forget that our country founded Eugenics. If you dismiss them as harmless 4chan incels, you won't notice it until they've done irreparable damage to our nation's laws and the most vulnerable groups among us.

So you're telling me that Trump, who's son-in-law and most senior adviser is an Orthodox Jewish businessman, who has his praises sung by Bibi Netanyahu and who wants to move the Israeli U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, does not just have a following of incoherent racists and delusional kooks who like it when he picks fights with Kaepernick and says "build a wall" but also a following of actual ideologically consistent Nazis who believe that Jews have been thwarting Aryan warriors with their slave morality and treachery ever since they left Egypt? What exactly is your definition of "Nazi"?

Let's also realize that Trump's most conservative adviser on immigration/racial issues, in fact probably the alt-right's (broadly defined) favorite Trump adviser, is Jewish (Stephen Miller).

[Madner Kami]

Modern day Nazis have a much bigger issue with muslims and they do recognize jews as an ally for the time being, going so far to defend Israel.

[Darth Wedgius]

I didn't say anything about clamping down on free expression in this thread.

Nazis, like pirates, Videans, the Borg, and Daleks, are Enemies of Mankind.

Saying "I am a Nazi" is fighting words because you are effectively declaring war on every single non-white, non-native-born, non-straight person who belongs to a religion other than Christianity, Atheism, or Norse Paganism within earshot.

(emphasis mine)

You can perhaps see my confusion. Though I admit that you did not unambiguously say you wanted a clampdown on free speech. You should, however, realize that my first post was not directed toward you, personally. I didn't even quote anybody.

I'm glad you're acknowledging powerful racists, but you need to recognize that they aren't just racists, they are >>Nazis<<. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

We don't need a Nazi takeover of the presidency because we already have a president who reads Breitbart, advocates concentration camps for Muslims, and was endorsed by the KKK.

I need you to acknowledge that Nazis, as a faction, have real political power in America, and their influence from public reputation to dragging the overton window in their direction is growing. Don't forget that our country founded Eugenics. If you dismiss them as harmless 4chan incels, you won't notice it until they've done irreparable damage to our nation's laws and the most vulnerable groups among us.

Sorry, no. I think that you think you're seeing the tip of an iceberg, but I just see some floating ice. We have had presidents who read the New York Times, and I can find plenty in there I find repugnant. Breitbart is a lousy source of news and has had entries from conspiracy nuts but has distanced itself from white supremacy, and, from a quick perusal, seems to be missing any swastikas, calls for the extermination of anybody, or plans to invade Poland. It has a decent circulation but would probably still need a "Go Fund Me" first.

The KKK endorsement matters as much to me as an alt-righter's endorsement of Papa John -- none. And the KKK isn't Nazi, just racists. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

I haven't seen any endorsement from Trump of concentration camps for Muslims. I've seen him suggesting steps for tracking Muslims or people from countries rich with terrorist movements, and then comparing that to FDR's camps to suggest registries or tracking would be constitutional. If you can find a quote from him unambiguously suggesting concentration camps for Muslims, I will look at that with an open mind.

I have a serious question, Fuzzy. It may seem flippant to you, but I promise it's an honest inquiry. Do you see flyers saying "It's OK to be White" as a racist?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I didn't say anything about clamping down on free expression in this thread. I'm glad you're acknowledging powerful racists, but you need to recognize that they aren't just racists, they are >>Nazis<<. Racism, in and of itself, is not a coherent ideology or a unified force.

We don't need a Nazi takeover of the presidency because we already have a president who reads Breitbart, advocates concentration camps for Muslims, and was endorsed by the KKK.

I need you to acknowledge that Nazis, as a faction, have real political power in America, and their influence from public reputation to dragging the overton window in their direction is growing. Don't forget that our country founded Eugenics. If you dismiss them as harmless 4chan incels, you won't notice it until they've done irreparable damage to our nation's laws and the most vulnerable groups among us.

So you're telling me that Trump, who's son-in-law and most senior adviser is an Orthodox Jewish businessman, who has his praises sung by Bibi Netanyahu and who wants to move the Israeli U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, does not just have a following of incoherent racists and delusional kooks who like it when he picks fights with Kaepernick and says "build a wall" but also a following of actual ideologically consistent Nazis who believe that Jews have been thwarting Aryan warriors with their slave morality and treachery ever since they left Egypt? What exactly is your definition of "Nazi"?

I believe he has a following of Nazis, yes. I also believe he would sell his son-in-law out for a cheeseburger.
Internal ideological consistency has never been a strong point with Nazis.

My definition of a Nazi is somebody who chants "Hail victory!", who quotes the 14 words, who adheres to an ideology of racial purity based more on mythology than facts, and who cares more about an authoritarian strongman figure than the truth. Also, chanting "blood and soil" or wearing a swastika armband helps.