Discussing Luke's Relationship with Mara Jade and Kylo Ren aka Why I Still Find Luke's Moment of Weakness Stupid

[Frustration]

Let's put it this way: the bad things in Star Wars are all him. The good things in Star Wars usually involved other people working to manifest his idea or improve on his work.

[Winter]

Let's put it this way: the bad things in Star Wars are all him. The good things in Star Wars usually involved other people working to manifest his idea or improve on his work.

Nope, the worst Star Wars story to date is the Star Wars Holiday Special which Lucas was not involved in. Oh sure he was the one who approved it and helped write the first draft (more on that in a bit) and helped out in one of the segments but had little involvement due to the executive meddling the special received from CBS and him focusing more on Empire.

And in regards to the First Draft, original Lucas just wanted to focus on Life Day bit and helped out with the Boba Fett segment aka the only parts of this Special fans actually liked. The concept of Life Days is actually rather interesting from a World Building Perspective. Also, Lucas KNOWS how bad the Special is and has never once shown any interest in it.

It's actually rather funny because by the time Lucas sold the series to Disney there was many fans who insisted that the series was now better off without Lucas screwing things over and after TDST there has been fans wanting the creator of the series to return. It's also very telling that the most praised show of the Disney Era, The Mandalorian, apparently DID involve Lucas or at least wanted him on set for a number of episodes in the first season.

Lucas's writing was flawed but there was always a charm to said writing and strange sense of honesty. You know that he's trying his best and he does have good ideas and even with the issues with the Prequel Trilogy I always get the sense that Lucas is trying his hardest to make the best film he could. At the very least, as you pointed out, the ideas that everyone loves about the Original Trilogy and the Prequels came from him. Even if he needed help to flesh out those ideas the fact remains that these are good ideas.

[Frustration]

Nope, the worst Star Wars story to date is the Star Wars Holiday Special

I don't even consider that to be Star Wars.

Look at the movies: the original films, and Lucas' re-releases of them. The bad parts of them come directly from Lucas. The good parts usually involved other people moderating or reworking what Lucas wanted.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Nope, the worst Star Wars story to date is the Star Wars Holiday Special

I don't even consider that to be Star Wars.

Look at the movies: the original films, and Lucas' re-releases of them. The bad parts of them come directly from Lucas. The good parts usually involved other people moderating or reworking what Lucas wanted.

There’s plenty of indication that Lucas’s ideas would tend to run on a bit. It just supports the notion that power should not be consolidated so much to just one man. Instead, it should flow through one, helping to influence one’s actions instead of simply enhancing them.

[Winter]

Nope, the worst Star Wars story to date is the Star Wars Holiday Special

I don't even consider that to be Star Wars.

Look at the movies: the original films, and Lucas' re-releases of them. The bad parts of them come directly from Lucas. The good parts usually involved other people moderating or reworking what Lucas wanted.

I don't get this mindset. I personally don't see anything wrong with most of the Re-Releases changes. Oh sure I get why some find those changes annoying but bad? The Holiday Special is bad, Star Trek: The Final Frontier is bad but the Re-Releases? On their own they're inoffensive and don't really change anything and I can even get what Lucas was going for, even if I don't agree with it.

However, I can see that we're about to go in circles arguing about this so can we just agree to disagree and move on?

[McAvoy]

This is just me about Lucas. He is an ideas guy. Overall storyline he is the man to go to. The details especially when it comes to characters? Yeah not him. Even in thefirst film alot of thd dialogue that was in the script was changed through many people.

This is just my very generalized version of my opinion of him.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

This is just me about Lucas. He is an ideas guy. Overall storyline he is the man to go to. The details especially when it comes to characters? Yeah not him. Even in thefirst film alot of thd dialogue that was in the script was changed through many people.

This is just my very generalized version of my opinion of him.

I think even the storyline goes through extensive manicuring.

[Frustration]

I personally don't see anything wrong with most of the Re-Releases changes.

That's because you have execrable taste. The changes Lucas introduced almost without exception impaired the development of dramatic tension, produced contradictions in the implied worlds, and/or changed the moods of scenes in ways that diminished their emotional impact and character development. The third of the original films, in which Lucas had the most direct input, has many of the worst choices, and the re-releases only intensified the problem.

In the original films, the cast rewrote most of their lines, including work by Carrie Fisher who later became known as a highly skilled script doctor. When Lucas insisted, or there weren't enough people willing to tell the Big Man 'no', the results were awful.

[Winter]

I personally don't see anything wrong with most of the Re-Releases changes.

That's because you have execrable taste.

Rude and inaccurate. Sure I may not mind the changes to the Original Trilogy and enjoy the Prequel Trilogy but guess what, we all enjoy things that don't always match with the main stream. I know you have yours just as I have mine.

But there are many things I enjoy and see as great stories that are likewise seen as great stories by the main stream.

She-Ra, Babylon 5, Star Trek, the Original Star Wars Trilogy, Tomb Raider, Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Last of Us and the Disney Princess Franchise.

I don't say that you have terrible taste in what you enjoy, extend me the same courtesy.

[Frustration]

We could have differences in preference but still share an understanding of what basic principles of drama Lucas' changes violated. But you don't. He made them worse stories than they were, and you don't perceive how or why - which means that you can't judge what's a good story or bad.