Arena

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
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Robovski
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Re: Arena

Post by Robovski »

Sloth? Maybe the megasloth Megatherium? But we are comparing mammals to alien reptiles - maybe we need to compare to reptiles. They generally can burst some movement when needed unless cold though. Some kind of scavenger lizard or dinosaur - like maybe they think T Rex may have been?
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Beastro
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Re: Arena

Post by Beastro »

Ooooo, the one with the mortar and the only real instance of actual, true, grounded infantry warfare in Trek, even including the Siege of AR-558!

The Age of Sail inspiration of Trek is strong in this episode with Kirk taking such massive steps on his own initiative that could lead to full scale war, something that was a constant in the era where communications back home could take longer to travel than a crisis could last - something I'd very much expect to happen in the far reaches of space, FTL comms or no FTL comms.
And yet during the Dominion War in the second half of the 24th century they run around like they're fighting in World War II (if that). This and other early TOS episodes also seem to have the only Trek writers who realize that ships at this technological level are not going to be dogfighting within a few hundred/thousand meters of each other.
Most staff probably had experience in, if not WWII, then the Draft, and were able to keep Roddenberry reined in. By the time of TNG that was long past and the budget couldn't handle it.

Still, for those who long for more real military representation in Trek, it was a delicious desert... even if by "desert" I mean a stale crumb of a cookie I found laying in the corner of my kitchen floor that is basic infantry fire support.
ChiggyvonRichthofen wrote:One other thing I appreciate about this episode is that it's one of the few instances where the weaponry in Trek actually feels somewhat advanced. There's a nice sense of distance in both the Gorn ambush and the ship to ship combat scenes, and of course some powerful weaponry that never seems to show up in the other series.
I miss the Star Fleet Battles Gorn and how much they were fleshed out.
Finally, like many advanced alien species, the Metrons are kind of jerks, which is another thing that could potentially be counted against it.
Finally, like many 60s butthurt god-aliens, the Metrons are kind of jerks, which is another thing that could potentially be counted against it.
FTFY
As for the fight scene in this episode, I don't have any problems with the Gorn suit (which is pretty damn good by tos standards and the blinking added in the remastered is a nice touch though I wish it had been used a bit more evenly) but the fight itself... yeah that just looks awful. From the fact that they didn't need it to move that slowly to get across that Kirk is faster, to the inconsistency it creates as the Gorn never moves that slowly again.
Some head canon from some older military types I know is that all Star Trek shows are literal shows produced and played for Federation civilians back home that present the distilled essence of "real life" events in a abstracted manner like a modern shows that try to present real events, even documentaries, hence all the talk of long ranges being spoken of sensor wise while the show presents the typical ships crammed next to each other barely moving we expect from Trek.
I liked and didn't like the introduction of the mortar. They should have armaments in between a rifle and a photon torpedo. With this case, though, I think Kirk might have called down fire from the Enterprise. Hey, it worked when Kirk fought God, right?
The only real problem with the mortar is that we never see it again. Such a kind of weapon will never get old, just get complemented with new tech and I could see it changing very little by their time, only getting self guiding PGM bits and bobs to help out the fundamental design while retaining the same old ability to lob munitions as a back up in case their guidance packages somehow can't be used (which would be every second Away Mission episode given how much shipboard tech fails).

Head canon from the military types I know is that this took place on the eve of what could be a Star Fleet craze of high concept, high tech bullshit much like the one that infected (and continues to refuse to go away) the US military that is Transformationalism and resulted insuch white elephants as DD-1000.

Long story short, Star Fleets leadership considers sensible infantry support to be too mundane and lowtech, and whynot get rid of it,and yes, have direct support from warships in orbit and expect that to be avaiable 24/7 on demand because isn't that just so much more fricking cool and neat and fancy and stuff than some squaddies lobbing rounds from a weapon Mankind invented centuries in the past, that by Federation standards, is so "ancient" they probably think it's literally Neolithic?
Last edited by Beastro on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
Darth Wedgius
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Re: Arena

Post by Darth Wedgius »

Starfleet's had a weapon that can hit anyone inside a building with no damage to the building or anyone around them. Beam up -- don't materialize. Rinse. Repeat. One of several things SG-1 did better than Trek. Hell, worried about energy consumption? Beam a tenth of the person up.

Admittedly, reminding your crew that the way they get to work can double as a disintegrator has a downside... "Oh, sorry, we left a Gorn liver on the pad. Let me get the hose..."
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Morgaine
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Re: Arena

Post by Morgaine »

I imagine it's not that easy to get a lock on enemy combatants. Most of the time they seem to require a communicator to do so, even while on board the ship.
Also I have to wonder if using the transporter as a weapon, as in dematerialising or beaming into space etc could be considered a war crime.
Independent George
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Re: Arena

Post by Independent George »

Huh. It's funny, but I never thought about indirect fire in a world of energy weapons, but it makes sense to have them; indirect fire never goes out of style. Presumably they wouldn't be chemically propelled anymore, though - maybe a railgun launcher sending antimatter charges? Then might be able to use the same power pack as the phasers.
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Dînadan
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Re: Arena

Post by Dînadan »

Independent George wrote:. Presumably they wouldn't be chemically propelled anymore, though - maybe a railgun launcher sending antimatter charges? Then might be able to use the same power pack as the phasers.
Maybe some sort of scaled down version of a photon torpedo launcher? And if so, the charge would similarly be a smaller version of a photon torpedo (in fact depending on how much of a photon is dedicated to its engines, targeting computer, etc, it might even be the same charge as the actual explosive component of a photon).
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TGLS
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Re: Arena

Post by TGLS »

That'd be insanely dangerous. Even a milligram of the stuff gives you a Davey Crockett style nuclear catapult. Smarter to use conventional explosives so if the mortar gets hit it doesn't take out an entire division. Other thought, why not just transport the bombs into position behind the enemy? Better weapon right there.
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bronnt
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Re: Arena

Post by bronnt »

Funny that, despite the themes of this episode, the bulk of discussion about it is the weaponry and tactics on display.
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Re: Arena

Post by J!! »

And yet nobody's mentioned Kirk's homemade Canon. For me, that was always the most memorable part of the episode, for better or worse.
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Robovski
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Re: Arena

Post by Robovski »

J!! wrote:And yet nobody's mentioned Kirk's homemade Canon. For me, that was always the most memorable part of the episode, for better or worse.
That cannon (more like a big blunderbuss) is amazing if you know nothing, awful if you have any kind of clue about the practicalities or science involved.
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