Film: Serenity

[Riedquat]

Still nope, you're taking a very simple-minded view there, so don't have the gall to spout crap about me living in a sugar-coated world. I'm aware of the nuance, you appear to be living in one where there's one simple rule that always applies, and where the implication is that everyone is actually as awful as the worst. Churchill had a lot of flaws and shortcomings, he was still rather less of a criminal than Hitler.

Russia and China are oppressive regimes that are hell-bent on suppressing anything critical of them. We are not living in one of those. Sure, we still don't like to go on about our historical failings but we certainly don't pretend they never happened. Very, very different. If we were like Russia or China you wouldn't even be posting the flaws of historical figures from this country. Hopefully Russia will eventually be defeated, and when that happens will that be the only reason we look down on Putin? Just because he didn't win?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I absolutely loved the joke he made at Whedon's expense. Came out of nowhere and made me laugh hard.

[clearspira]

Still nope, you're taking a very simple-minded view there, so don't have the gall to spout crap about me living in a sugar-coated world. I'm aware of the nuance, you appear to be living in one where there's one simple rule that always applies, and where the implication is that everyone is actually as awful as the worst. Churchill had a lot of flaws and shortcomings, he was still rather less of a criminal than Hitler.

Russia and China are oppressive regimes that are hell-bent on suppressing anything critical of them. We are not living in one of those. Sure, we still don't like to go on about our historical failings but we certainly don't pretend they never happened. Very, very different. If we were like Russia or China you wouldn't even be posting the flaws of historical figures from this country. Hopefully Russia will eventually be defeated, and when that happens will that be the only reason we look down on Putin? Just because he didn't win?

The winners get to tell you what to think and do. They describe what victory looks like, they tell you what heroes to worship, they tell you how amazing your country is. To doubt this fact is to demonstrate that your government has worked its propaganda on you very well indeed.

And BTW, whilst my freedom of speech would be reduced in China, you are a fool to think that somehow you have it in the West. Our censorship merely takes a more insideous form.

[Riedquat]

"Disagree? You've been influenced by propaganda!" is the sort of dreck excuse that we usually hear these days from those lunatics trying to justify Russia's actions. It's also frequently a stance used by tin foil hat nutters to try to make themselves feel important.

The problem with you "history is written by the winners" claim is that you appear to be taking it as so absolute, so complete, that you've backed yourself in to a corner where you're essentially claiming that everything is BS, along with that fundamentally everyone is always as bad as everyone else, and that ultimately everything is always propaganda, to the same degree. That is oversimplifying things to a ludicrously absurd degree and is leading you to some rather farcical conclusions.

[Frustration]

Winners don't necessarily engage in propaganda, because sometimes they think their position is so self-evidently correct that they don't feel a need to 'convince' people of the obvious truth.

[Riedquat]

Winners don't necessarily engage in propaganda, because sometimes they think their position is so self-evidently correct that they don't feel a need to 'convince' people of the obvious truth.

Or are in a society that'll expose outright propaganda as the drivel it is. More subtle stuff can get through but isn't quite the same, since it has to include quite a bit of truth to it.

[clearspira]

"Disagree? You've been influenced by propaganda!" is the sort of dreck excuse that we usually hear these days from those lunatics trying to justify Russia's actions. It's also frequently a stance used by tin foil hat nutters to try to make themselves feel important.

The problem with you "history is written by the winners" claim is that you appear to be taking it as so absolute, so complete, that you've backed yourself in to a corner where you're essentially claiming that everything is BS, along with that fundamentally everyone is always as bad as everyone else, and that ultimately everything is always propaganda, to the same degree. That is oversimplifying things to a ludicrously absurd degree and is leading you to some rather farcical conclusions.

What sort of strange and simple world you must live in. Is there a unicorn with a rainbow on its arse in your yard?

[Madner Kami]

"Disagree? You've been influenced by propaganda!" is the sort of dreck excuse that we usually hear these days from those lunatics trying to justify Russia's actions. It's also frequently a stance used by tin foil hat nutters to try to make themselves feel important.

The problem with you "history is written by the winners" claim is that you appear to be taking it as so absolute, so complete, that you've backed yourself in to a corner where you're essentially claiming that everything is BS, along with that fundamentally everyone is always as bad as everyone else, and that ultimately everything is always propaganda, to the same degree. That is oversimplifying things to a ludicrously absurd degree and is leading you to some rather farcical conclusions.

What sort of strange and simple world you must live in. Is there a unicorn with a rainbow on its arse in your yard?

If you can't argue against a statement, attack the speaker. Great job there, Clearspira.

[Riedquat]

"Disagree? You've been influenced by propaganda!" is the sort of dreck excuse that we usually hear these days from those lunatics trying to justify Russia's actions. It's also frequently a stance used by tin foil hat nutters to try to make themselves feel important.

The problem with you "history is written by the winners" claim is that you appear to be taking it as so absolute, so complete, that you've backed yourself in to a corner where you're essentially claiming that everything is BS, along with that fundamentally everyone is always as bad as everyone else, and that ultimately everything is always propaganda, to the same degree. That is oversimplifying things to a ludicrously absurd degree and is leading you to some rather farcical conclusions.

What sort of strange and simple world you must live in. Is there a unicorn with a rainbow on its arse in your yard?

Yeah, there's someone who's incapable of defending their position if ever there was one.

I did have a more detailed response to it but I was laughing too hard to type it; it's not as if there was even the slightest bit of substance to respond to in any case.

There's quite an amusing irony though (well, it is part of why I was laughing) at you trying to use "simple" in response to it being pointed out how simpled-minded you're being. 2/10, needs to try much harder (and the two is only because I'm feeling generous, having won this evening's pub quiz).

[McAvoy]

The only difference between ''general'' and ''war criminal'' is the winner.

In the US, we had a Civil War with the losing side top General has never been called a war criminal. General Lee.

But there could be an argument made about the winning side with the Union Army about war crimes.