[DS9] Sons of Mogh

[Fianna]

https://www.sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d487.php

Have we had the "Always Awesome Tony Todd" award before?

[Linkara]

I think the mindwipe isn't considered that controversial for a few reasons.

1. It's fulfilling Kurn's wish. While there are probably many out there who don't agree with assisted suicide, especially in a case like this where it's a matter of being an exile from society rather than a slow, painful death or the like, ultimately Kurn WANTED to die originally. It's why he came to see Worf - to die and restore his honor. This ultimately fulfills his wants, even if it took a while to get there.

2. The fact that he's not dead at all. It's entirely possible that in the future, his memory could be restored if the opportunity arose, so it's not like the story is being closed off forever with his death. It's just putting the toy away in the box for a while should they ever need it again.

3. Kurn isn't human. The values and beliefs of the Klingons are different and Trek already teaches tolerance and acceptance in different cultures and their viewpoints, and in this case it's honoring those beliefs and customs just in a roundabout way.

Now, it's debatable whether Kurn should have given his consent in this first (Bashir certainly should have gotten it first by his own beliefs as a Doctor, but there you go), but it's possible from the writers' perspective Kurn would have believed this to not be acceptable - only physical death would have satisfied him - and thus if he isn't aware of it it works, but really just feels like a case of "To include the discussion or asking would have put the episode over and it was felt this worked better."

[stryke]

I think the mindwipe isn't considered that controversial for a few reasons

I believe it was back in the day.

I started watching Trek and getting into online discussions and doing related stuff like looking at the fanfic around mid s7 of DS9. Back in that wonderful period of the mid/late 90s telly where the BBC were showing a Trek ep in the early evening along with the Simpsons.

One thing I do remember was that people were still talking about as a serious issue with Bashir's character was the lobotomy with the general feeling that the episode was desperately missing a scene where he at least makes some token protests against the ethics of the procedure. Definitely came across a couple of fixfics where that was used as plotpoint. Him killing Odo in the mirror universe and it apparently having no emotional fallout or ever being brought up again being another.

So as that was around three to four years later after the original airing and as that was still a hot button issue then suggests it likely was even worse at the time.

[Fianna]

It does seem like maybe there was a missing scene where they actually talked to Kurn about this, rather than just doing it after they fell unconscious.

[CMWaters]

A question I had that never is addressed (unless something happens in Picard this season or some spin off later): what would have become of Kurn if he had broken through, after Worf joined the House of Martok? Would Kurn have been welcomed in as (relatively) easy as Worf was, or would Kurn's conflicting personality have hurt that? And of course the obvious point about Kurn's reaction if he broke through his new identity: would he resent his brother's actions? Or would he be understanding of this new path? And would Kurn accept any accolades and praise that he had earned in his new life once he rediscovered his old one?

I mean, this is all assuming he wasn't on a ship that was blown up during the Dominion War. They did kill Sisko's old friend from the Maquis introduction off screen, doing so to Kurn in his new form isn't out of the question either.

[Swiftbow]

Frankly, I have a problem whenever Trek characters erase memories from anyone. That's dark tech, and I don't think it should be justifiable... well, EVER. Erasing a person is, in my opinion, worse than killing them. Manipulating memory can easily be altered into basically brainwashing, but on a VERY sophisticated level.

This episode bothered me quite a bit for that reason. That kind of tech should have been banned in the Federation. It's amazing they would ban genetic manipulation but allow this.

[Madner Kami]

Kurn does reappear, but only in Beta-Canon (and voiced by Tony Todd):

[...]

Rodek appears in the game Star Trek Online as a General in the Klingon Defense Force, joining the player in battle against Tzenkethi forces. Following the mission to liberate Martok from his imprisonment at a Son'a facility in the Briar Patch, Rodek discovers the truth of his past. He chooses to return to his former identity and he and his mate B'irja take up residence on Deep Space 9 to continue assisting the Alliance against the Tzenkethi.

[...]

[Fianna]

Frankly, I have a problem whenever Trek characters erase memories from anyone. That's dark tech, and I don't think it should be justifiable... well, EVER. Erasing a person is, in my opinion, worse than killing them. Manipulating memory can easily be altered into basically brainwashing, but on a VERY sophisticated level.

This episode bothered me quite a bit for that reason. That kind of tech should have been banned in the Federation. It's amazing they would ban genetic manipulation but allow this.

One case where it might have been justifiable is on Miles O'Brien in "Hard Time", but there it wouldn't work, 'cause reasons.

[BlackoutCreature2]

I kinda have some issues with the mind wipe simply because it was a direct circumvention around Kurn's wishes that I really doubt he would've agreed to. But I'm willing to accept that as, for lack of a better term, a flaw in Worf's character, not a flaw in the episodes writing. He's just not able to kill his brother under these circumstances, no matter how "honorable" or "Klingon" it might be.

As for Bashir not questioning the procedure, he seemed ready to go as soon as Worf showed up with Kurn's unconscious body, so I'm assuming he, Worf and Sisko had a long conversation over the matter before it even got to that point to assuage any ethical concerns he might've had. I imagine it started and ended with Sisko saying "I don't got time for this Klingon crap, do the procedure or I'm re-assigning you to Starbase 80".

[Archanubis]

Kurn does reappear, but only in Beta-Canon (and voiced by Tony Todd):

[...]

Rodek appears in the game Star Trek Online as a General in the Klingon Defense Force, joining the player in battle against Tzenkethi forces. Following the mission to liberate Martok from his imprisonment at a Son'a facility in the Briar Patch, Rodek discovers the truth of his past. He chooses to return to his former identity and he and his mate B'irja take up residence on Deep Space 9 to continue assisting the Alliance against the Tzenkethi.

[...]

Also goes down a bit differently in the IKS Gorkon/Star Trek Klingon novel series by Keith R. A. DeCandido.