The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

[Independent George]

Sorry, if you are defending prequels, then you are part of the problem - you are one of the reasons why bad movies are being made!

I disagree; on a meta level, I think the fact that you think there's a "problem" in the first place is the real problem.

I don't defend the prequels (mostly E1, because I think E2-E3 were ok if not great). I agree with all of the substantive criticisms of it. But at the end of the day, they were three mediocre-to-bad movies that nevertheless were financial successes and gained some popularity even if I disagree with it. There is literally nothing more to this story other than "I didn't care for these movies because [X]".

The fact that so many fans ascribe moral outrage over not liking a film is the issue that bothers me far more than the merits of the film. I disagree with GandALF and fundamentally agree with Plinkett's points, and will argue it all day (well, not literally; I'm already bored with rehashing the exact same arguments over and over). But that's a disagreement over a movie - nothing more, nothing less. The notion that the fans somehow "own" Star Wars, and were somehow betrayed by the prequels (those are paraphrases of things I've actually read) is ludicrous and repugnant to me.

[bronnt]

The fact that so many fans ascribe moral outrage over not liking a film is the issue that bothers me far more than the merits of the film. I disagree with GandALF and fundamentally agree with Plinkett's points, and will argue it all day (well, not literally; I'm already bored with rehashing the exact same arguments over and over). But that's a disagreement over a movie - nothing more, nothing less. The notion that the fans somehow "own" Star Wars, and were somehow betrayed by the prequels (those are paraphrases of things I've actually read) is ludicrous and repugnant to me.

I think the outrage comes from the fact that it's such a wasted opportunity. The original trilogy was a cultural phenomenon. It was almost a shock if you met someone who had never seen Star Wars because they were so widespread. I can't imagine feeling that way about any other movie ever made-if I meet someone who hasn't seen "Titanic" or "Gone with the Wind" or "ET," it just doesn't resonate in the same way that it does with Star Wars, at least at that point in history.

There was a chance to make something truly transcendent. There were tons of talented people eager to work on the film, and you didn't need to write a story that pandered to the masses because the film had an enormous built-in audience. It would have been so easy to break box office records by writing a halfway decent story, or just by giving us something in a likeable character we can relate to.

[Beastro]

A blockade should be encircle the entire planet anyways.

I'd think enough of a placement around it to pick up anyone zipping in and being able to intercept them in time would be enough, a physical encirclement of a closed blockade that is the stereotype I don't think would be needed and it would be more of a distant one analogous to the British blockade of Germany.

Honestly though, I don't know how a blockade would work in a world with limitless Delta V and ships most likely being able to sneak into and out of worlds.

Returning to Dune, there is actually very little backstory and history to the books. Somethings were explained and others were left vague in the same way real history is has events and periods of time that are spotty to us today. What was explained rarely went into any detail and the paradoxical effect was creating a sense of depth out of proportion to what was presented, typical in an off the cuff manner like someone flipping through a history book and mentioning random states and civilizations throughout history.

Amusingly, it's the opposite approach to Tolkien took but both worlds have a heavy weight of history about them, although Tolkien's still has a vastly deeper sense of that to it.

As far as Tolkien, it's mostly true there too that things are left vague. He certainly had ideas about the long and deep history of the world and its people, but the novels only make passing reference to the stories and ruins they encounter, due to the limited point-of-view. This is an intentional part of the storytelling, as elaborated upon in this talk: Lord of the Rings: How To Read J.R.R. Tolkien by Michael D. C. Drout. Any elaboration we have about the details comes from peripheral material.


youtu.be/lXAvF9p8nmM

Oh there is that, it's why you can go into LoTR easy despite it's heavy front loading because of that sense that real history and artifacts give off, that it's been thought out through over the course of time instead of made up on the fly and thrown together.

What I meant was if you decide to read beyond LoTR and the Hobbit either going into the Silmarillion or simply studying how he created his world, you're able to and it's possible to unravel his world and know much about it, despite many things still be left vague. In a series like Dune that was never Herbert's intention and it showed even in the times when background was offered outside of the novels, it was writing by others that can be easily dismissed as illegitimate, like the Dune Encyclopedia or his sons novels.

[Tonesthegeek]

Looking back on Episode 1, and the prequels in general, some of the issues Chuck points out that caused headaches for the story could have been fixed if someone had just suggested something ridiculously simple. Naboo, should have been Alderan!

This would have opened many possibilities and presented numerous solutions for the films many plot holes. For one, Padme Amadala could have still been queen, a constitutional monarch perhaps where her authority would be limited, but nonetheless be the figurehead of her people. The actual head of state, could have been someone from another noble bloodline, the Organas, and he could have been assasinated when the Trade Federation invaded, his young son Bail Organa leading the resistance against the invaders, Padme helping him broker an alliance with the Gungans, and eventually following his fathers footsteps as a leader.

By the time episode 2 came around, padme would still be a monarch but serving her people in a more active role In diplomatic affairs while Bail would still be on Alderan, the two working together on both fronts for their people and her valued influence would make her a target, forcing the Jedi to act to protect her. When Episode 3 comes around, Padme's death with no heir would mean the end of the Amadala bloodline, necessitating another's family fill their role, especially with Alderan preparing to rebel against the new Galactic Empire. Bail Organa's family would be an obvious choice and his young daughter Leah upon coming of age would be ideal to assume the role of constitutional monarch and diplomat.

Leah could have grown up around the legend that was Padme Amadala, her father telling of her achievements as Queen, a strong woman she would idolize never knowing she was her mother, when asked to assume her role as the ceremonial figurehead, she would take the title of "Princess" instead of Queen out of respect for her predecessor. But her admiration for her deceased queen would be in contrast to her profound hatred for the Emperor's chief enforcer Darth Vader, who over the years would come to Alderan and have the vile nerve to darken the halls of Queen Amadala's mosoleum for unknown reasons. This disrespect to her beloved idol would no doubt motivate her to take up a more active role in her fathers rebellion.

Granted this is merely a concept and more skilled writers could have come up with something better, but it's nice to imagine what could have been.

[GandALF]

Looking back on Episode 1, and the prequels in general, some of the issues Chuck points out that caused headaches for the story could have been fixed if someone had just suggested something ridiculously simple. Naboo, should have been Alderan!

This would mean that: A) Obi-Wan and Yoda would then be hiding Leia from the Emperor by sending her to live on the Emperor's homeworld and alongside its prominent leaders.
B) Tarkin blowing up Alderaan is brazen enough as it is, but by blowing up the Emperor's homeworld he's disrupting the Emperor's narrative that he's using harsh methods to prevent tragedies similar to what happened to his homeworld which won him the sympathy votes to become Chancellor in the first place.

[Madner Kami]

B) Tarkin blowing up Alderaan is brazen enough as it is, but by blowing up the Emperor's homeworld he's disrupting the Emperor's narrative that he's using harsh methods to prevent tragedies similar to what happened to his homeworld which won him the sympathy votes to become Chancellor in the first place.

You are talking of a population that somehow managed to forget that Jedi and the Force are a real thing within the timespan of 20 years, despite tens of thousands of years of cultural experience with both the Jedi and the Force. Blowing up a vaguely relevant planet? That's like tuesday to them.

[GandALF]

B) Tarkin blowing up Alderaan is brazen enough as it is, but by blowing up the Emperor's homeworld he's disrupting the Emperor's narrative that he's using harsh methods to prevent tragedies similar to what happened to his homeworld which won him the sympathy votes to become Chancellor in the first place.

You are talking of a population that somehow managed to forget that Jedi and the Force are a real thing within the timespan of 20 years, despite tens of thousands of years of cultural experience with both the Jedi and the Force. Blowing up a vaguely relevant planet? That's like tuesday to them.

The Rebels didn't forget. And you're getting awfully close to questioning the logic of the infallible original trilogy:

[J!!]

This would mean that: A) Obi-Wan and Yoda would then be hiding Leia from the Emperor by sending her to live on the Emperor's homeworld and alongside its prominent leaders.

they already decided to hide luke on vader's homeworld, alongside his only living relatives

[Dînadan]

This would mean that: A) Obi-Wan and Yoda would then be hiding Leia from the Emperor by sending her to live on the Emperor's homeworld and alongside its prominent leaders.

they already decided to hide luke on vader's homeworld, alongside his only living relatives

True but they weren’t it’s leaders and lived out in the ass end of nowhere on it. Plus Vader (assuming they knew he survived, been too long since I last saw RotS to recall if Obi-wan and Yoda mentioned it when discussing what to do with the kids) had every reason to not go back considering how much pain he’d associate with the place.

Of course the issue with Leia is a problem with the decision to retcon her into being Luke’s sister in RotJ; even without it being Palpatine’s planet she’s still being hidden with the rulers of a prominent planet, and that’s before she becomes a senator. The only way I can think of to explain how Vader and the Emperor never noticed would be the Light Side of the Force getting revenge on the Dark Side for having blocked the Jedi from noticing Palpatine by doing the same to Palpatine and Vader and blocking her from them, which is rather unsatisfying and a copout to me.

[J!!]

at least with leia, they thought to change her name