Fascism is Heroarchy

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The most consistent thing I can think of in general; the scale of opposition between two opposing sides. The conflict itself becomes a McGuffin.

Politically, the Vietnam War was fought between China and America. Visually it was fought between America and North Vietnam. Maybe if it was a Soviet colony then there would be a different discerning.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Btw can we attempt to define heroarchy here? The idea that a hero is or (more specifically) should be in charge of things is what comes to mind with the “archly” suffix?

[MithrandirOlorin]

Btw can we attempt to define heroarchy here? The idea that a hero is or (more specifically) should be in charge of things is what comes to mind with the “archly” suffix.

The Coiner of the term was Thomas Carlyle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosoph ... of_Heroes)

Heroarchy (Government of Heroes)
As with history, Carlyle believed that "Society is founded on Hero-worship. All dignities of rank, on which human association rests, are what we may call a Heroarchy (Government of Heroes)".[37] This fundamental assertion about the nature of society itself informed his political doctrine. Noting that the etymological root meaning of the word "King" is "Can" or "Able", Carlyle put forth his ideal government in "The Hero as King":

Find in any country the Ablest Man that exists there; raise him to the supreme place, and loyally reverence him: you have a perfect government for that country; no ballot-box, parliamentary eloquence, voting, constitution-building, or other machinery whatsoever can improve it a whit. It is in the perfect state; an ideal country.

Carlyle did not believe in hereditary monarchy but in a kingship based on merit. He continues:

The Ablest Man; he means also the truest-hearted, justest, the Noblest Man: what he tells us to do must be precisely the wisest, fittest, that we could anywhere or anyhow learn;—the thing which it will in all ways behoove us, with right loyal thankfulness, and nothing doubting, to do! Our doing and life were then, so far as government could regulate it, well regulated; that were the ideal of constitutions.[38]

It was for this reason that he regarded the Reformation, the English Civil War and the French Revolution as triumphs of truth over falsehood, despite their undermining of necessary societal institutions.[39]

But I see the vibes of Heroarchy even when the Politics aren't that explicit.

To me the most Fascist scene in the Anime named Gate isn't any of the battle scene but the Diet Scene.

[TGLS]

To me the most Fascist scene in the Anime named Gate isn't any of the battle scene but the Diet Scene.

Now all I can picture is Wagner blasting over some guy deciding what to have for lunch.

[hammerofglass]

To me the most Fascist scene in the Anime named Gate isn't any of the battle scene but the Diet Scene.

Now all I can picture is Wagner blasting over some guy deciding what to have for lunch.

Ride if the Valkyries was written for what's effectively a water-cooler conversation. So not that out of place really.

[MithrandirOlorin]

To me the most Fascist scene in the Anime named Gate isn't any of the battle scene but the Diet Scene.

Now all I can picture is Wagner blasting over some guy deciding what to have for lunch.

In Gate Diet is what the Legislative branch of the Japanese Government is called.

The show does use Wagner amusingly enough.

[clearspira]

It’s George so that’s certainly a thing for him. But these interpretations definitely were things he was talking about before the prequels, and the fact the parallels are clearer and more direct in the prequels is certainly gonna make people inclined to believe his later claims.

But honestly this just gets into authorial intent in a very hair-splitting way. Mostly I think that for George Lucas he’s such a blunt storyteller that the distinction between “drew inspiration/iconography from” and “was creating a deliberate allegory” is kinda moot, he lays the former on thickly enough that nobody can really disprove it if he claims the latter.

Many authors do it. They have some vague idea in their mind, execute it and then have the rest of their life to figure out what they actually wanted to say/meant/intended. Memories don't work in the most obvious way, we don't actually "save a file" so to say. What we do is relive a situation in our head and our perception of that scene is influenced by our current biases and perceptions and the memory drifts a bit every time we relive it in our head. A brunette, becomes a redhead and so on.

A civil war supported by imperialistic outside forces on both sides, where one side wins practically every single military engagement and factually wins the war and yet retreats and lets the already beaten opposition win, just because the civilian population back home was fatigued and protested against the war? Yeahno, that's not Star Wars' rebellion by a long shot. And neither is Verhoeven's Starship Troopers an allegory for fascist tendencies in the US at the time. It's just Verhoeven making a movie in his style that is based off a book that features fascist themes without making an explicit moral statement about said themes.

You know what's interesting about Starship Troopers? It presents us with a world without sexism or racism among the humans. The men and women shower and bunk together without any suggestion of sexual harassment, men and women fight side by side in the army without being treated differently, black and white fight side by side again without remark, veterans with artificial limbs are holding down decent jobs. The kids are educated and healthy, medical technology is advanced, art is flourishing, and the civilians are clearly enjoying their lives.

This is an incredibly enlightened place compared to pretty much every real fascist dictatorship throughout history. I can see why some people accuse this film of glorifying fascism because this place is actually working out really well.

TL;DR, If this is an allegory for 1990s America, it's a pretty crap one. Especially as Paul Verhoeven did so well satirising 1980s America with Robocop just a few years prior.

[ProfessorDetective]

It’s George so that’s certainly a thing for him. But these interpretations definitely were things he was talking about before the prequels, and the fact the parallels are clearer and more direct in the prequels is certainly gonna make people inclined to believe his later claims.

But honestly this just gets into authorial intent in a very hair-splitting way. Mostly I think that for George Lucas he’s such a blunt storyteller that the distinction between “drew inspiration/iconography from” and “was creating a deliberate allegory” is kinda moot, he lays the former on thickly enough that nobody can really disprove it if he claims the latter.

Many authors do it. They have some vague idea in their mind, execute it and then have the rest of their life to figure out what they actually wanted to say/meant/intended. Memories don't work in the most obvious way, we don't actually "save a file" so to say. What we do is relive a situation in our head and our perception of that scene is influenced by our current biases and perceptions and the memory drifts a bit every time we relive it in our head. A brunette, becomes a redhead and so on.

A civil war supported by imperialistic outside forces on both sides, where one side wins practically every single military engagement and factually wins the war and yet retreats and lets the already beaten opposition win, just because the civilian population back home was fatigued and protested against the war? Yeahno, that's not Star Wars' rebellion by a long shot. And neither is Verhoeven's Starship Troopers an allegory for fascist tendencies in the US at the time. It's just Verhoeven making a movie in his style that is based off a book that features fascist themes without making an explicit moral statement about said themes.

You know what's interesting about Starship Troopers? It presents us with a world without sexism or racism among the humans. The men and women shower and bunk together without any suggestion of sexual harassment, men and women fight side by side in the army without being treated differently, black and white fight side by side again without remark, veterans with artificial limbs are holding down decent jobs. The kids are educated and healthy, medical technology is advanced, art is flourishing, and the civilians are clearly enjoying their lives.

This is an incredibly enlightened place compared to pretty much every real fascist dictatorship throughout history. I can see why some people accuse this film of glorifying fascism because this place is actually working out really well.

TL;DR, If this is an allegory for 1990s America, it's a pretty crap one. Especially as Paul Verhoeven did so well satirising 1980s America with Robocop just a few years prior.

Yeah, this is definitely a regime where the trains- er... shuttles actually run on time. But at what cost?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Except for the fact that everybody except Rico in the movie are joining in order to get some specialized job. They're not allowed to get the job lest they join the auto selective service and potentially join a life-threatening war which they do.

I think in the film they mention the area that the bugs blast to be some sort of prominent sect of society. I could be wrong though.

It's decent philosophy in the film when the teacher lays it out. People are only allowed to vote if they join the military because of the consequences inherent in deciding policy. Most every adult at the start of the movie is weary of the overshadowing government, including the teacher.

[CharlesPhipps]

Got into a conversation regarding Spider-Man's odd relationship with the police, particularly in PS4's Spider-Man.

Superheroes are inevitably in a weird place regarding policing because they are fundamentally anti-fascist (which a lot of academics refuse to acknowledge because, having worked as one in Literature—a lot of them are snobbish assholes) because they are created as a response to the failures of the policing system from the Great Depression. Adolf Hitler and Goebbels even designated them "Jewish Media" and against the values of the Third Reich — which is a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one.

However, the assumption by Spider-Man is that he is trying to carry water for the system not overthrow it like the X-men who are far more political. It's ironic because Sixties Stan Lee and Dikto weren't unaware of the failures of the police or media. There's a reason Jonah Jameson attacks Spider-Man and there's huge numbers of corruption stories in their run.

Why? Because they were New Yorkers when the NYPD was at its most useless/corrupt.