Dystopian Science Fiction only reinforces the real world Status Quo

[KuudereKun]

1984 taught me about the idea that the government might be lying to me and that I shouldn't trust it. That opened and entire wellspring of reading in things like the Handmaid's Tale and other dystopian fiction that made me realize that, in fact, Kentucky was run by Far Right authoritarians as well as religious bigots.

Of course, the failure of certain critics of dystopian fiction is that they stupidly think that it is about the future.

No, Dystopian fiction is about the PRESENT.

George Orwell was an Anticommunist fraud and Handmaiden's Tale unwittingly plays into TERF rhetoric.

[clearspira]

1984 taught me about the idea that the government might be lying to me and that I shouldn't trust it. That opened and entire wellspring of reading in things like the Handmaid's Tale and other dystopian fiction that made me realize that, in fact, Kentucky was run by Far Right authoritarians as well as religious bigots.

Of course, the failure of certain critics of dystopian fiction is that they stupidly think that it is about the future.

No, Dystopian fiction is about the PRESENT.

George Orwell was an Anticommunist fraud and Handmaiden's Tale unwittingly plays into TERF rhetoric.

1) What is an ''anti-communist fraud''? If you mean, ''he was against communists'' then you do realise the era he lived in? The era of Lenin and Stalin? The era of Cold War? To be skeptical of Communism was a pretty understandable POV.

2) I have absolutely no idea how you've read a TERF agenda into the Handmaid's Tale.

[clearspira]

I heard that in the Disney movie TOMORROWLAND and felt it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard in my life. Mind you, it also implies that people are such sheep they're incapable of learning from negative examples.

TOMORROWLAND is a good example of what I'm talking about. Disney COULD have made a charming and fun little adventure about a world trapped in 1950s science fiction. Doesn't mean there couldn't have been conflict - but it could have been from some Ming the Merciless pulp villain. They could even have put in the standard Disney social messages and still had it work. ''Look at this woman baking cookies'' etc.

But they didn't do that. They had TOMORROWLAND (a place set up by the best and the brightest for the betterment of science) become this depressing and failed place with a tacked on green aesop. What a waste.

[KuudereKun]

1984 taught me about the idea that the government might be lying to me and that I shouldn't trust it. That opened and entire wellspring of reading in things like the Handmaid's Tale and other dystopian fiction that made me realize that, in fact, Kentucky was run by Far Right authoritarians as well as religious bigots.

Of course, the failure of certain critics of dystopian fiction is that they stupidly think that it is about the future.

No, Dystopian fiction is about the PRESENT.

George Orwell was an Anticommunist fraud and Handmaiden's Tale unwittingly plays into TERF rhetoric.

1) What is an ''anti-communist fraud''? If you mean, ''he was against communists'' then you do realise the era he lived in? The era of Lenin and Stalin? The era of Cold War? To be skeptical of Communism was a pretty understandable POV.

2) I have absolutely no idea how you've read a TERF agenda into the Handmaid's Tale.

That's exactly my point, Orwell reinforced the norms of his time rather then challenging them.

[CharlesPhipps]

George Orwell was an Anticommunist fraud and Handmaiden's Tale unwittingly plays into TERF rhetoric.

Criticisms of George Orwell's anti-communism (which can absolutely be done) often include Stalinist apologia. Mind you, the amount of apologia for the Soviet Union's oligarch repressive authoritarianism amount to the same sort of tankie defense of Putin's Russia.

"It's not the West, ergo, they're pro-Left."

And the Handmaid's Tale absolutely doesn't address trans issues. You also didn't mention the way it treats minorities (basically just killing them all off and ignoring their stories). Now, explain why it' not relevant to the theocratic fascist tendencies of America.

That's exactly my point, Orwell reinforced the norms of his time rather then challenging them.

It was a challenge to the acceptance of authoritarianism as an acceptable practice of Leftist regimes. Which, of course, are equally applicable to challenging far Right regimes. Mind you, the idea that Orwell can only be used to critique Leftist regimes comes primarily from those who attempt to argue that authoritaranism is acceptable in the pursuit of Leftist goals.

As Orwell showed, the issue is the pigs and farmers becoming identical in the exploitation of the working class.

The ending was still so offensive to American authorities the CIA forcibly rewrote the ending in their funded movie adaptation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(1956_film)

TOMORROWLAND is a good example of what I'm talking about. Disney COULD have made a charming and fun little adventure about a world trapped in 1950s science fiction. Doesn't mean there couldn't have been conflict - but it could have been from some Ming the Merciless pulp villain. They could even have put in the standard Disney social messages and still had it work. ''Look at this woman baking cookies'' etc.

But they didn't do that. They had TOMORROWLAND (a place set up by the best and the brightest for the betterment of science) become this depressing and failed place with a tacked on green aesop. What a waste.

In a rare occasion we agree, Tomorrowland is a joyless movie about a bunch of scientific separatists who have a failed society that they blame on the weakness of humanity rather than themselves. It's basically BIOSHOCK except that the movies' conclusion is that Andrew Ryan was betrayed by the filthy peasants.

The nature of dystopian fiction is very much a critique of Modern Societies and warning against the way they are heading. Rather than sticking to the literary classics, one of the great genres for critquing modern capitalism is almost certainly Paul Verhoeven's ROBOCOP. A movie that sadly is as relevant today as it was in the late 80s. The hellish capitalist corporate dystopia of its time was a warning against the excesses of looter capitalism, Reagan's America, and their similarities to the Nazis.

It was absolutely a critique of the status quo.

And so are virtually every cyberpunk movie like The Matrix and other anti-corporate anti-fascist works.

[hammerofglass]

I remember there was a thing a few years ago where TERFs tried to claim Handmaid's Tale and Margaret Atwood yelled at them for it so they think she's a gender traitor now. Their argument as far as I could tell was just "it's popular and we like it so it belongs to us now".

[CharlesPhipps]

I remember there was a thing a few years ago where TERFs tried to claim Handmaid's Tale and Margaret Atwood yelled at them for it so they think she's a gender traitor now. Their argument as far as I could tell was just "it's popular and we like it so it belongs to us now".

It's about living in a gender essentialist misogynist theocratic state so, yeah, not a good place to be Trans.

[ProfessorDetective]

I think "it's a cautionary tale, not an INSTRUCTION GUIDE!" is an applicable phrase, here.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think "it's a cautionary tale, not an INSTRUCTION GUIDE!" is an applicable phrase, here.

Which switching from my position of defending Dystopian themes is that there's one problem with them: which is that people who approve of fascism and corporate dystopia don't see the cautionary element of them. THE META-VERSE is named after Snow Crash's artificial virtual reality even though that it is an object that was serving as the in-universe opiate of the masses. No one is trying to repair the Earth that has collapsed because they have virtual reality to retreat into.

It's a similar thing with George Lucas' Galactic Empire. Fascists can't make their own immense dreams and visions so they just co-opt the ideas of people critiquing them because they often have better more grandiose visions than the ones they could come up with themselves.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

1984 taught me about the idea that the government might be lying to me and that I shouldn't trust it. That opened and entire wellspring of reading in things like the Handmaid's Tale and other dystopian fiction that made me realize that, in fact, Kentucky was run by Far Right authoritarians as well as religious bigots.

Of course, the failure of certain critics of dystopian fiction is that they stupidly think that it is about the future.

No, Dystopian fiction is about the PRESENT.

George Orwell was an Anticommunist fraud and Handmaiden's Tale unwittingly plays into TERF rhetoric.

1) What is an ''anti-communist fraud''? If you mean, ''he was against communists'' then you do realise the era he lived in? The era of Lenin and Stalin? The era of Cold War? To be skeptical of Communism was a pretty understandable POV.

2) I have absolutely no idea how you've read a TERF agenda into the Handmaid's Tale.

That's exactly my point, Orwell reinforced the norms of his time rather then challenging them.

I don't think it's very disputed that the Soviet government had a system rather astray from democratic ideals. The US, or Washington for that matter, in reflection is not to be seen as perfect, though the economic liberalization of America tends to prevail historically. Not only regarding state survival standards, but on the same token of impartial consideration that state-sponsored socialism is afforded; economically, a controlled market understandably complicates standards of equilibrium that are generally recognized as an inherent rationale for sustainable public policy.

To this regard I've become somewhat intrigued with the DC rendition of the Cold War played out by the likes of Superman Red Son, in which the events of the Cold War are rather consistently played out with Lex Luthor as the US president and Superman as the liberal ideal that Soviets have historically espoused since around the time Superman became a thing in the US. If anything Red Son seems like a return to form for the original incarnation of Superman as a historical parallel to early Leninism.