Dystopian Science Fiction only reinforces the real world Status Quo

[CharlesPhipps]

Slavery back in the day, the North didn't really care about it. They didn't have slaves and the South was far enough away to not make it everybody's problem. So the North was nominally opposed, but didn't really have many contact-lines with the issue, to force an action until the South radicalized itself and explicitly made it the North's problem.

That's a very unfair view because quite a few people VERY MUCH did care about it. So much so that the Republican Party was formed solely from the anti-slavery elements of every other party and had, literally, containment and abolition of slavery as the only thing that could be agreed upon. It was also popular enough that it did win the Presidential election.

Bloody Pre-Civil War happened in Kansas of Northern people willing to kill Slave owners and vice versa rather than admit another slave state.

It was also controversial enough of an issue that even when the South was willing to beat a man to crippling on the floor of the Senate, the response was only anger and fury rather than submission.

[clearspira]

Centrists are the most close minded and that's why they aren't worth trying to reach. I went form being a type of Far Right to a type of Far Left, there was no transitional phase of me being a Centrist.

That's only if you believe nuance is a lie. Extremists tend to promise that X group is completely wrong in their policies and if you went entirely with Y, it would be a utopia.

And as much as I hate the GOP and their leadership, is just not true in my country or most others.

Centrism may be an enemy to progress but it's also a bulwark against fascism.

Centrists always wind up siding with Fascists because when it really matter they always consider them the lesser evil to Communists but Fascists share their love of Order. Hindneberg and Papan willingly Hitler in power even after Hitler just lost an election.

No they don't.

[KuudereKun]

Right, Left, and Center vary tremendously wherever you are.

That right there is the Left's biggest problem (outside of fighting with itself about who is THE TRUE LEFT™. This extremist all or nothing mentality. Why not just take what you can get and make slow progress with moderation, rather than no progress at all and pushing the centrists away from you?

Part of this is due to the fact that incremental change may not actually be something you'll live through and a lot of change actually does happen because someone takes a stand and does something drastic. The Stonewall Riots, Civil Rights, and other rights often happen immediately rather than incrementally. For a century, the attempt to stop slavery by starving it out only made the South EVEN MORE determined to preserve it when it took the Civil War to flat out crush it.

There's also the less dramatic, "If you're a, say, trans person, slow improvement is a stupid thing versus demanding your rights as a human being now." And they're right. Negotiating over whether to treat them as a whole human being is ridiculous. Sometimes the buck should stop there.

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people. It mostly gets more murky, with increasing degrees of religiousness in that field of "centrism" (e.g. when it comes to the topic of gay-marriage), but that's that: An extremist-right position within a centrist spectrum, which argueably isn't even part of "centrism". (Besides, I don't subscribe to the agglomeration of such a diverse group of political opinions into one label.)

Slavery back in the day, the North didn't really care about it. They didn't have slaves and the South was far enough away to not make it everybody's problem. So the North was nominally opposed, but didn't really have many contact-lines with the issue, to force an action until the South radicalized itself and explicitly made it the North's problem.

People forget this but the first time secession was proposed in relation to the Slavery issue it was Abolitionists saying the North should seceded.

[CmdrKing]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people. It mostly gets more murky, with increasing degrees of religiousness in that field of "centrism" (e.g. when it comes to the topic of gay-marriage), but that's that: An extremist-right position within a centrist spectrum, which argueably isn't even part of "centrism". (Besides, I don't subscribe to the agglomeration of such a diverse group of political opinions into one label.)

Truthfully (to switch to American parlance specifically for a second since it’s an example) my read of Democrats has been until very recently that they did NOT want to deal with trans issues. While some people recognized the core civil rights threat anti-trans activity posed, in general a majority of democrats, both officials and voters, were uncomfortable around trans people and deeply wanted to simply ignore the issue.
I think if republicans had been able to keep it in their pants and limit things to arguments about religious freedom, bathrooms, and sports, they could have won. But because they crossed so far into obviously genocidal rhetoric and laws, liberals in the US weren’t able to really ignore it (even if I think there’s a quiet pushback from some voting blocks about the matter). Not that they’re taking ACTION, but rhetorically it’s basically impossible to ignore something as egregious as Florida’s family separation laws.

[CharlesPhipps]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

[McAvoy]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

[hammerofglass]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

[clearspira]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

[hammerofglass]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

I honestly don't see how you can write that out and not have an "are we the baddies" moment. So mad about absolutely nothing.

"Oh no I'm supposed to treat people different from me with a baseline of respect, I'm being victimized by them existing."

[CharlesPhipps]

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!''

Dude....

Rearrange your own sentence and it becomes, "I only accept X people in a narrow definition of them being invisible and not drawing attention to their differences."