Dystopian Science Fiction only reinforces the real world Status Quo

[KuudereKun]

Twitter is a private company with terms of service you have to agree to to use it. They are not part of the government so "protected speech" means bupkis.

This defense of Corporate Censorship needs to die, The Government needs to actively protect our rights, not just passively not violate them. That's what the Civil War was about.

No it wasn't it was about Slavery period.

You say that as if what I said contradicts that.

It does, because you made an absolute and exclusive statement. And a wrong one on top of that. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Slavery was the undisputed cause because that's why the South wanted to Leave, the pro Union Argument is that the Rights of States to do they want do not exceed the rights of the people living in those States. That is why there is nothing Exclusive about my statement. Unless you disagree hat Slavery itself was a violation of people's rights?

[hammerofglass]

Twitter is a private company with terms of service you have to agree to to use it. They are not part of the government so "protected speech" means bupkis.

This defense of Corporate Censorship needs to die, The Government needs to actively protect our rights, not just passively not violate them. That's what the Civil War was about.

No it wasn't it was about Slavery period.

You say that as if what I said contradicts that.

It does, because you made an absolute and exclusive statement. And a wrong one on top of that. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Slavery was the undisputed cause because that's why the South wanted to Leave, the pro Union Argument is that the Rights of States to do they want do not exceed the rights of the people living in those States. That is why there is nothing Exclusive about my statement. Unless you disagree hat Slavery itself was a violation of people's rights?

Slavery was the CONFEDERATE causus beli, not the Union's. That the northern states were not willing to fight a war to end slavery is proven by the passage of the Corwin Amendment in 1961. If the secessionist movement had been willing to accept constitutional protection of slavery where it already existed without guarantees of expanding it that would have been the end of the matter.

[KuudereKun]

Twitter is a private company with terms of service you have to agree to to use it. They are not part of the government so "protected speech" means bupkis.

This defense of Corporate Censorship needs to die, The Government needs to actively protect our rights, not just passively not violate them. That's what the Civil War was about.

No it wasn't it was about Slavery period.

You say that as if what I said contradicts that.

It does, because you made an absolute and exclusive statement. And a wrong one on top of that. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Slavery was the undisputed cause because that's why the South wanted to Leave, the pro Union Argument is that the Rights of States to do they want do not exceed the rights of the people living in those States. That is why there is nothing Exclusive about my statement. Unless you disagree hat Slavery itself was a violation of people's rights?

Slavery was the CONFEDERATE causus beli, not the Union's. That the northern states were not willing to fight a war to end slavery is proven by the passage of the Corwin Amendment in 1961. If the secessionist movement had been willing to accept constitutional protection of slavery where it already existed without guarantees of expanding it that would have been the end of the matter.

The precedent set by the War and cemented by the 3 Reconstruction Amendments was still that the Federal Government needs to protect the rights of the people. And this was further reinforced by Civil Rights Legislation.

[CharlesPhipps]

Slavery was the CONFEDERATE causus beli, not the Union's. That the northern states were not willing to fight a war to end slavery is proven by the passage of the Corwin Amendment in 1961. If the secessionist movement had been willing to accept constitutional protection of slavery where it already existed without guarantees of expanding it that would have been the end of the matter.

The Confederacy and "Lost Cause" apologia often attempt to attack Lincoln and the Republican Party/Union's motivations as not being really against slavery. They want to make it so the causes are muddier. The Confederacy declaration of independence lists slavery and white supremacy both as the causes it is being founded to protect. But it also makes clear that the Union is inherently hostile to slavery and they view Lincoln, explictly, as having been elected on a policy of containment and anti-slavery progress with the goal of eventually removing that institution.

The Radical Republicans were the only ones who wanted to abolish slavery entirely rather than contain it (which would have destroyed the institution anyway as the South was on a policy of expanding it as far as possible). They also had a policy of equal rights to blacks. The thing was while the Radical Republicans, while a minority, weren't a SMALL minority.

And the goal of the entire party was to eventually starve the institution out--which is why the South chose to secede.

[Frustration]

Kind of my point. Defining the absolutes of free speech there. Plenty of people are against slander and libel as concept.

Except 1) those crimes are not of the type that the authorities try to prevent, they merely legally sanction them after the fact if the victim pursues charges, and 2) in the US it requires the demonstration of extreme negligence or malice to be convicted of those crimes, as well as showing that actual harm was done and that the statements are in fact false. Truth is the perfect defense.

As opposed to Langford basilisks, which if they existed would be a crime to communicate - for excellent reason.

[KuudereKun]

Here's a good video on George Orwell.


youtu.be/2Gz0I_X_nfoD

[CharlesPhipps]

*looks at link*

"I hope this isn't just a hatchet job link."

*clicks it*

"Yep."

[KuudereKun]

*looks at link*

"I hope this isn't just a hatchet job link."

*clicks it*

"Yep."

It's not, everything is sourced.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's not, everything is sourced.

Actually, it's more the attempt to attack the author as a way of discrediting their work. 1984's depiction of failed revolutions, descent into totalitarianism, manipulation of public via scapegoating and cult of personality are not actually affected by whether he was a piece of shit or not in RL. Which is part of the larger issue of this thread as to whether attacking RL evils via depiction of their exaggerated end state is possessed of literary merit or not.

Mind you, as stated, I tend to prefer cyberpunk end state capitalism in my fiction. Ironically, I tend to believe that a lot of dystopianism of the Eighties became pretty close to actual reality. Robocop lost a lot of its satirical edge simply because the depiction of a future with horrific abuses of power and complete dismantling of workers rights in America is just reality now.

"We've traditionally dabbled in businesses regarded as non-profit like prisons, hospitals, and space exploration."

[KuudereKun]

It's not, everything is sourced.

Actually, it's more the attempt to attack the author as a way of discrediting their work. 1984's depiction of failed revolutions, descent into totalitarianism, manipulation of public via scapegoating and cult of personality are not actually affected by whether he was a piece of shit or not in RL. Which is part of the larger issue of this thread as to whether attacking RL evils via depiction of their exaggerated end state is possessed of literary merit or not.

Mind you, as stated, I tend to prefer cyberpunk end state capitalism in my fiction. Ironically, I tend to believe that a lot of dystopianism of the Eighties became pretty close to actual reality. Robocop lost a lot of its satirical edge simply because the depiction of a future with horrific abuses of power and complete dismantling of workers rights in America is just reality now.

"We've traditionally dabbled in businesses regarded as non-profit like prisons, hospitals, and space exploration."

As I said in the OP Cyberpunk is stupid to me because it's stupid to think the Capitalists would ever simply get rid of the state, and that is exactly what Robocop is about. I think it makes a fun fictional setting sometimes, I'm a rare person who actually enjoyed Prime Directives, but it's social commentary was always silly.

Animal Farm is predicated on several popular myths about the Russian Revolution, like the idea that Stalin implemented the same Economic Policy Trotsky was going to.

Orwell's being a professional Rat for MI6 should obsoletely discredit anything he has to say about "Failed Revolutions".