Secret Invasion on Disney+

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clearspira
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

Post by clearspira »

CharlesPhipps wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:40 am
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 11:53 pm I agree how Phase 4 seems meandering. I think if the shows were interconnected to like any degree then it would start feeling more like phase 4 should. The shows are mainly interactive with the movie backdrops, and I am somewhat taken with it.

Falcon and Winter Soldier, Loki, Wandavision, I thought felt intrenched in the movie section, unlike the Netflix MCU shows, which in opposite fashion had superb interconnectivity with each other and no interactivity with the movies.
The MCU has been fucking WEIRD since Endgame as it seems to be constantly retiring its heroes and not doing much to set up popular ones for the Avengers. The Scarlet Witch, The Guardians of the Galaxy, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, Ant-Man is retired...I mean, the only one they've set up is Captain America II.

Disney doesn't seem to realize it's been winding down the setting.
The MCU should have ended with Endgame. I'm not saying ''no more films'' i'm saying ''that should have been the end of this chapter, reboot, clean slate.''

As i've said before, the problem is too much content. New viewers are not going to sit through 30 movies and 10 shows to get caught up, especially given how much of it is behind a paywall and ESPECIALLY given how bad word of mouth is for the modern stuff.

And my effing God am I sick of multiverses. Is there anything that removes stakes quite as much as acknowledging that the people you are following don't actually matter at all?
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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I'm not sure you have to watch 30 movies to watch the current shows. Loki kinda launches off Avengers a bit, which came out a long time ago. And Hawkeye's character premise is heavily anchored on a rather discrete and temporally dislocated character...

But the rest of the shows don't really require a detailed understanding of the series before it. Falcon and Winter Soldier picks up after Civil War, which isn't that big of a stretch. And it carries the story forward quite a bit compared to not only the shows, but other mcu movies as well. Wandavision is kind of stretching it since it follows Age of Ultron, but it's a consistent show by standalone terms... It's more about her in a Pleasantville scenario, and the MCU fan viewer themselves is left in the dark at the start of the show.
..What mirror universe?
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Madner Kami
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:11 am I'm not sure you have to watch 30 movies to watch the current shows. Loki kinda launches off Avengers a bit, which came out a long time ago. And Hawkeye's character premise is heavily anchored on a rather discrete and temporally dislocated character...

But the rest of the shows don't really require a detailed understanding of the series before it. Falcon and Winter Soldier picks up after Civil War, which isn't that big of a stretch. And it carries the story forward quite a bit compared to not only the shows, but other mcu movies as well. Wandavision is kind of stretching it since it follows Age of Ultron, but it's a consistent show by standalone terms... It's more about her in a Pleasantville scenario, and the MCU fan viewer themselves is left in the dark at the start of the show.
You're talking from a position with in-depth knowledge about all these characters. Imagine you weren't.
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

Madner Kami wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:14 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:11 am I'm not sure you have to watch 30 movies to watch the current shows. Loki kinda launches off Avengers a bit, which came out a long time ago. And Hawkeye's character premise is heavily anchored on a rather discrete and temporally dislocated character...

But the rest of the shows don't really require a detailed understanding of the series before it. Falcon and Winter Soldier picks up after Civil War, which isn't that big of a stretch. And it carries the story forward quite a bit compared to not only the shows, but other mcu movies as well. Wandavision is kind of stretching it since it follows Age of Ultron, but it's a consistent show by standalone terms... It's more about her in a Pleasantville scenario, and the MCU fan viewer themselves is left in the dark at the start of the show.
You're talking from a position with in-depth knowledge about all these characters. Imagine you weren't.
Precisely, I am.

We're talking squarely post endgame here (and how meta is that?).

WandaVision kicks it off with not even MCU fans knowing what's going on. Everybody gets caught up rather consistently. Loki is a complete detachment from Avengers in terms of caricature. In which case he is consistently inconsistent, like Black Widow is, from movie to movie. Aside from the intro of the show, it mainly just plays out like Dr. Evil Who.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier picks up squarely after Civil War by terms of buddy film dynamics go. You kind of have to follow Captain America specifically, but that was generally the epitome of Captain America within the MCU anyway. I'm hardly going to fault it for having the most consistent and developing narrative across 3 movies and 1 show.

The main problem if anything is that there is literally no cohesive tissue between all these movies and shows, except for Wandavision/Dr Strange (which was good), and Matt Murdock's cameo in Spider-Man.
..What mirror universe?
stryke
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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Dang this has been dull. It's reminding me strongly of Falcon which only came alive and felt like something worth watching when Carl Lumby is one screen, just here it's Oliva Colman.
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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https://beforewegoblog.com/television-r ... -betrayed/

"BETRAYED" is the third episode of the SECRET INVASION series by Disney+. The premise of Secret Invasion is the Skrulls from Captain Marvel have elected a new leader in Gravik. Gravik is a former child soldier of the Skrull resistance who worked under Nick Fury before deciding that he'd been betrayed. Now Gravik believes the best solution to their lack of a homeworld is to kill everyone on Earth but for Skrulls. This is a plan that is missing a few steps.

Indeed, a large part of Secret Invasion's problems as a series stem from the fact that the series is not nearly complex enough to justify its spy thriller nature. The Skrulls are almost comically evil with their decision to kill all of humanity being poorly motivated, poorly thought out, and far over the top for their needs. A million Skrulls could fit into one city after all. There's also the fact that the show keeps on resembling David Icke's Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories regarding alien lizard men.

There's also the not ridiculous idea that David Icke plagarized Skrulls when he created his reptilian shapeshifters since so much of his hate-filled bile is from the collective unconsciousness of science fiction, conspiracy theories, and so on. After all, the theories that he created for this nonsense were in the Nineties and the Skrulls were created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee in 1962.

The centerpiece of this episode, for me at least, is that Nick Fury confronts his Skrull wife about her possible involvement with Gravik. Mrs. Fury confronts Nick with the fact that he was dead for the Blip (five years) but also that upon his return from the dead, pretty much retreated to himself. It's a harsh and interesting depiction of a relationship that has a lot of similarity to couples waiting for their loved ones to come back from war.

Another good moment is that we do get some more information on how Nick Fury ascended to become the head of SHIELD. Twenty Skrull agents were lent from the refugees to gather information for him. I like the number they chose because it is large enough that you can believe Nick got a lot of benefit from them but not so much that it makes no sense that they didn't detect Hydra or other threats we know secretly existed.

Most of the episode is an attempt to prevent Gravik from starting World War 3 by having his agent provocateurs launch an unprovoked attack on the UN. This is one of those situations where you note that there are plenty of defenses in place to avoid "orders so crazy that they wouldn't fit in Doctor Strangelove." Fury and Talos successfully prevent the attack but only with the help of G'iah. This, of course, exposes her as a double agent.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I like or dislike the fact that Gravik is such a whiny poseur. His arguments are basic, he doesn't appear to be nearly as intelligent as he seems, and his supposed genius comes off like all of the adults in the room are manipulating him. I don't know if this is deliberate or not but I don't think that he's remotely as effective a villain as the show is presenting him as. In simple terms, he talks a big game but I don't buy him as the Big Bad.
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:41 amI don't know if this is deliberate or not but I don't think that he's remotely as effective a villain as the show is presenting him as. In simple terms, he talks a big game but I don't buy him as the Big Bad.
I know it's a super low bar but at least I buy him more than that Flag Smasher big bad in Falcon.
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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stryke wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:26 am I know it's a super low bar but at least I buy him more than that Flag Smasher big bad in Falcon.
Karli is meant to be sympathetic and is essentially absolutely what I think Gravik is coming off as, a child acting out. The actual Big Bads of Falcon & Winter Soldier are the faceless government agency, Zemo, and the power Broker. In the end, Karli dies and she gets what she wants but only because Falcon took up her cause.

Gravik is, "Derr humans must die because bad."
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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'Meant' being a keyword, as I do think they failed badly at that.
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CharlesPhipps
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Re: Secret Invasion on Disney+

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SECRET INVASION 1x04 "Beloved" is the fourth episode out of a six episode miniseries that is supposed to be about the Skrull invasion of Earth. However, it's mostly been about a couple of thwarted (as well as one not so-thwarted) terrorist attacks by the questionably competent Gravik. This is something that has been dragging the show as well as the killing of multiple well-liked characters. Basically, I don't buy Gravik as a competent antagonist and given he's up against Nick Fury, that just makes the entire thing fall apart.

Warning, this review will contain spoilers.

The premise for "Beloved" is that Nick Fury's wife, Varra, has been given the mission of killing him by James Rhodes' replacement. Yes, it turns out that Rhodey has been replaced by a Skrull infiltrator and that sadly undermines their conversation in "Promises." Varra is conflicted about killing Fury despite the fact that Gravik is someone that she swore her allegiance to a long time ago. Also, she was apparently assigned to entrap him as a honey pot many years prior. This is easily the best part of the episode and probably deserved its own episode to focus on it.

Instead, the majority of the episode is focused on Gravik's plot to kill the United States President and frame Russia for the attack. Which, fine, that's a perfectly good evil plot and better than the previous couple that have happened. It's fine and is a pretty good action scene but it also ends in yet another major character death that feels unnecessary and without sufficient build-up. This is one of the big flaws of Secret Invasion, it doesn't know how to milk any actual drama from its deaths.

Basically, since Maria Hill was killed in episode one, fans have been confused as to whether any deaths would "stick" or not. After all, anyone killed during the show could end up being a Skrull at the end. That was one of the features of the original Secret Invasion comic. They brought back Mockingbird among several other dead characters and almost brought back Gwen Stacy (seriously). So, fans don't know if they should be shocked or not whenever a major character is killed.

This is demonstrated by the revelation that G'iah, seemingly killed the previous episode, turns out to have survived. This is good because Emilia Clark is a fantastic actress and I kind of wonder what would have happened if this hadn't been a TV show but had been a movie with her as Spider-Woman and Queen Veranke. Maybe have some actual superheroes be replaced and ended with General Ross becoming President due to killing the Skrull Queen. You know, something similar to the actual comic.

Either way, no sooner do we have it discovered that G'iah survived then we have Talos seemingly killed. I don't know if we're meant to take it seriously or not. If so, it seems like another waste of a good character for a mediocre storyline. We also only have two episodes left and I'm not sure the plot has gotten started let alone is ready to come to an end.
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