The Left was Anti-War even during the lead up to WW2 (and the Right was not)

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So? What's your point? That the Left are more likely to oppose war than the Right? I could have told you that.

A lot of modern so called Leftists love to demonize anyone was Anti-War at the time and acting like sympathizing with the Nazis was the only reason to do so.

What does it matter? No one reason is going to explain something like that in order to compare it to how sjws act today.

It's not just SJWs, you see it even from mainline Liberals and MLs.

Pacifism is definitely not a nazi alignment.

[CharlesPhipps]

I mean, if you want regurgitate talking points from decades earlier. There's a lot of complexities to the issue.

1. Soviet Betrayal of US Communists

The Soviet Union managed to single handedly destroy the American Communist Party well before the Red Scare Part II with their attempted manipulation of the US Communist Party they funded. Basically, during the Hitler-Stalin pact, they were told to have the Communist Party be Anti-War. Then when Hitler inevitably betrayed it, they told them to be Pro-War. However, to get more support from the US government, they said to ditch the whole, "racism is awful and everyone should be equal" thing that they were the only party to have any stance on publicly.

This, of course, was the kind of thinking that only people in Russia could have because about 60% of the Communist Party in America was drawn from blacks or other victims of racism that found this decidedly less than appealing. Combined with their lack of support of the New Deal (accelerationists believed it was ruining a chance at a Communist Revolution), the Communist Party in America became almost nothing by the time that McCarthy/Hoover said it was everything.

2. Defining "The Left" in America is a bit iffy during the Depression

Part of the issue in America has never been that there was no "Left" but the fact the Left in America has been far more divided than it ever was in Europe (and Europe is FUCKING divided among the Left). The New Deal was radical in its politics as far as the vast majority of Americans were concerned and even resulted in the Businessman's Plot that tons of people deny happened but absolutely was planned. The problem for the Anarchists and Communists of America was that it was definitely a reformist capitalist platform as opposed to a anti-capitalist one. Not to mention Roosevelt was about as close to Bruce Wayne in pedigree as possible as opposed to the working class.

There's also the confusing element of the politics in that the Left was defined by the Soviet Union (a totalitarian dictatorship) that ended up receiving vast amounts of support the year of them declaring war. So it's not even the case of those supporting Left leaning governments being the Left of America.

[TGLS]

So the America First Committee was left-wing?

[KuudereKun]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

I mean, if you want regurgitate talking points from decades earlier. There's a lot of complexities to the issue.

1. Soviet Betrayal of US Communists

The Soviet Union managed to single handedly destroy the American Communist Party well before the Red Scare Part II with their attempted manipulation of the US Communist Party they funded. Basically, during the Hitler-Stalin pact, they were told to have the Communist Party be Anti-War. Then when Hitler inevitably betrayed it, they told them to be Pro-War. However, to get more support from the US government, they said to ditch the whole, "racism is awful and everyone should be equal" thing that they were the only party to have any stance on publicly.

This, of course, was the kind of thinking that only people in Russia could have because about 60% of the Communist Party in America was drawn from blacks or other victims of racism that found this decidedly less than appealing. Combined with their lack of support of the New Deal (accelerationists believed it was ruining a chance at a Communist Revolution), the Communist Party in America became almost nothing by the time that McCarthy/Hoover said it was everything.

2. Defining "The Left" in America is a bit iffy during the Depression

Part of the issue in America has never been that there was no "Left" but the fact the Left in America has been far more divided than it ever was in Europe (and Europe is FUCKING divided among the Left). The New Deal was radical in its politics as far as the vast majority of Americans were concerned and even resulted in the Businessman's Plot that tons of people deny happened but absolutely was planned. The problem for the Anarchists and Communists of America was that it was definitely a reformist capitalist platform as opposed to a anti-capitalist one. Not to mention Roosevelt was about as close to Bruce Wayne in pedigree as possible as opposed to the working class.

There's also the confusing element of the politics in that the Left was defined by the Soviet Union (a totalitarian dictatorship) that ended up receiving vast amounts of support the year of them declaring war. So it's not even the case of those supporting Left leaning governments being the Left of America.

Browder did support the New Deal, it was Foster who opposed it, and the misguided logic of opposing it was also taken by the Socialist Party.

Another Mistake the CPUSA made during the War was agreeing not to support Strikes anymore. The Socialist Party and the Trotskyist Parties fortunately didn't go along with that nonsense.

[Madner Kami]

Business Plot

First time I heard anything about this. Thank you.

[TGLS]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

Yeah, which kind of undermines your whole point. There was a swath of people who were pro-war, and a swath who were anti-war. It wasn't a clear cut issue. And even among those who were "pro-war" that didn't mean, "let's go attack Germany." There were different ideas on how to help Britain and China that fell short of direct intervention (Lend-Lease, Destroyers for Bases, Embargo of Axis Powers, etc.)

[hammerofglass]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

Yeah, which kind of undermines your whole point. There was a swath of people who were pro-war, and a swath who were anti-war. It wasn't a clear cut issue. And even among those who were "pro-war" that didn't mean, "let's go attack Germany." There were different ideas on how to help Britain and China that fell short of direct intervention (Lend-Lease, Destroyers for Bases, Embargo of Axis Powers, etc.)

I thought that was their point.

[KuudereKun]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

Yeah, which kind of undermines your whole point. There was a swath of people who were pro-war, and a swath who were anti-war. It wasn't a clear cut issue. And even among those who were "pro-war" that didn't mean, "let's go attack Germany." There were different ideas on how to help Britain and China that fell short of direct intervention (Lend-Lease, Destroyers for Bases, Embargo of Axis Powers, etc.)

I thought that was their point.

TGLS is confusing the title with an Absolute statement when it's more of the general trend.

[Madner Kami]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

Yeah, which kind of undermines your whole point. There was a swath of people who were pro-war, and a swath who were anti-war. It wasn't a clear cut issue. And even among those who were "pro-war" that didn't mean, "let's go attack Germany." There were different ideas on how to help Britain and China that fell short of direct intervention (Lend-Lease, Destroyers for Bases, Embargo of Axis Powers, etc.)

I thought that was their point.

TGLS is confusing the title with an Absolute statement when it's more of the general trend.

Aren't we a wee bit intellectually dishonest there? You did make absolute statements in the title after all...

[KuudereKun]

The America First Committee had people from all other the Political Spectrum

Yeah, which kind of undermines your whole point. There was a swath of people who were pro-war, and a swath who were anti-war. It wasn't a clear cut issue. And even among those who were "pro-war" that didn't mean, "let's go attack Germany." There were different ideas on how to help Britain and China that fell short of direct intervention (Lend-Lease, Destroyers for Bases, Embargo of Axis Powers, etc.)

I thought that was their point.

TGLS is confusing the title with an Absolute statement when it's more of the general trend.

Aren't we a wee bit intellectually dishonest there? You did make absolute statements in the title after all...

I feel like it should be pretty normal on the Internet to expect the body of a Text to be more Nuanced then the attention grabbing title.

However I also demonstrated that some of the Anti-War figures who were Conservative overall where on the Left side of the issues that normally define what a Nazi is, like Robert Taft.