STA: The Seige

[drewder]

I think the reason is that all the ZPMs they tend to find are ones that have been in use for thousands of years. The ones that were in use on Atlantis were more than likely brand new before spending 10,000 years holding back the ocean.

I feel like spending 10k years holding back the ocean is basically for all intents and purposes is limitless energy. Which makes sense that's what they're supposed to be. The other zpms however have been sitting mostly dormant the past 10k years. They should be nowhere near the edge of their power. I also doubt the ancients produced brand new zpms just to sink the city.

The Ancients are established as being very arrogant. I wonder if the ZPMs have varying levels of quality control. Like I said above though, Stargate is pretty bad regarding energy levels.

I doubt any civilization like the ancients could long endure without very precise quality control. A poorly made zpm could destroy a solar system

[drewder]

ZPMs are kinda implied to be a recent development, which is difficult to produce, even for the Ancients. Even the Pegasus-Replicators, who were able to construct new ones, only seem to have a few. And Destiny is pre-dating ZPMs by quite a margin and needs to refuel regularly. The ship is also significant slower than Asgard- and ZPM-powered Tau'Ri-ships. I remember someone running the math back in the day and the ZPM-powered Daedalus would need just under 30 years to catch up with Destiny, while Destiny was underway for around 50 million years.

It's a different problem. Beelining from point A to B is not the same as seeding whole galaxies with stargates.

[Madner Kami]

ZPMs are kinda implied to be a recent development, which is difficult to produce, even for the Ancients. Even the Pegasus-Replicators, who were able to construct new ones, only seem to have a few. And Destiny is pre-dating ZPMs by quite a margin and needs to refuel regularly. The ship is also significant slower than Asgard- and ZPM-powered Tau'Ri-ships. I remember someone running the math back in the day and the ZPM-powered Daedalus would need just under 30 years to catch up with Destiny, while Destiny was underway for around 50 million years.

It's a different problem. Beelining from point A to B is not the same as seeding whole galaxies with stargates.

That's not what Destiny is doing. That is done by a swarm of drone-ships who flew ahead and who are equally slow (or fast) as Destiny is, with a headstart of a couple thousand years.

[Linkara]

Still, the solar-powered engines of Destiny are a very different sort of beast for power than ZPMs. It's not like they can just open some solar collectors from a distance and boom, you're good - they need to actually dive INTO the star to get that power, and only certain kinds of stars are safe to do so, anyway. Plus it feels like they need a lot more time between jumps than modern vessels (maybe I'm misremembering that).

I'd say the bigger tech disparity when it comes to Destiny are the tablets and the gates themselves - portable DHDs that not only are pretty simple to operate AND utilize the KINOs (why aren't there any KINOs on Atlantis, for instance, when they're such a useful scouting item especially during a time of war?), but also can tell you about nearby gates, which it feels like not even Pegasus gates can do unless you hack into them and discover the last 50 known dialed addresses. The gates themselves feel more sophisticated than Milky Way gates, looking sleaker than them AND being light-up. Admittedly, the gates are designed differently because Destiny itself uses a different sort of gate system what with it always in motion across multiple galaxies, but still.

[Mabus]

There are many issues regarding the use of power of stars compared to ZPMs:
-Because it's external, this makes your ship vulnerable to cutoff: this was a big issue when the alien drones figured out a way to catch up to Destiny, they would just park in front of the star and when Destiny was about to head towards it, they would engage. A ZPM, by virtue of being internal power source, gets rid of this problem all together.
-Waste heat: as shown in Echoes and SGU S2 finale, residual heat from the star will slowly build up inside the ship, and eventually you'll cook alive. Even with the ZPM boost, the Daedalus shields were just not strong enough to stop heat from the CME from bleeding though the shields. Destiny barely spent more than 1-2 minutes inside each star, not enough to heat up significantly.
-There is also the issue of Destiny having to actually dive inside the star for refueling, which makes sense, outer layers of a star have very low density compared to the deeper regions, which was the big issue when they had to dive inside that blue giant for emergency refueling. I don't know how many people would be alright with actually living inside a friggin' star.

So unless the Ancients developed some advanced and efficient form of star lifting, the way Destiny gets its power is not very efficient for powering a civilization.

Regarding the inconsistent power of ZPMs shown on screen, most of them that were found were mostly depleted, so they were near the end of their life, but another factor to consider is the type. Just like our current generation of batteries are more efficient than the ones from 10 or 30 years ago, it's possible that many ZPMs shown were of an older generation that were less efficient or got depleted too quickly. I do wonder in that case if the reason why the Ancients were so determined to hide that "Potentia" ZPM is because that one was the latest model, which was superior to all of their current ones, but couldn't get to Atlantis because the gate was locked from being dialed from Pegasus before the Ancients left, the ZPM facility being offworld.

[clearspira]

There are many issues regarding the use of power of stars compared to ZPMs:
-Because it's external, this makes your ship vulnerable to cutoff: this was a big issue when the alien drones figured out a way to catch up to Destiny, they would just park in front of the star and when Destiny was about to head towards it, they would engage. A ZPM, by virtue of being internal power source, gets rid of this problem all together.
-Waste heat: as shown in Echoes and SGU S2 finale, residual heat from the star will slowly build up inside the ship, and eventually you'll cook alive. Even with the ZPM boost, the Daedalus shields were just not strong enough to stop heat from the CME from bleeding though the shields. Destiny barely spent more than 1-2 minutes inside each star, not enough to heat up significantly.
-There is also the issue of Destiny having to actually dive inside the star for refueling, which makes sense, outer layers of a star have very low density compared to the deeper regions, which was the big issue when they had to dive inside that blue giant for emergency refueling. I don't know how many people would be alright with actually living inside a friggin' star.

So unless the Ancients developed some advanced and efficient form of star lifting, the way Destiny gets its power is not very efficient for powering a civilization.

Regarding the inconsistent power of ZPMs shown on screen, most of them that were found were mostly depleted, so they were near the end of their life, but another factor to consider is the type. Just like our current generation of batteries are more efficient than the ones from 10 or 30 years ago, it's possible that many ZPMs shown were of an older generation that were less efficient or got depleted too quickly. I do wonder in that case if the reason why the Ancients were so determined to hide that "Potentia" ZPM is because that one was the latest model, which was superior to all of their current ones, but couldn't get to Atlantis because the gate was locked from being dialed from Pegasus before the Ancients left, the ZPM facility being offworld.

Its interesting that you mention different ''generations'' of ZPM. They repeat this show often in the UK and I saw one recently called ''The Last Man''. This is the one where Shepherd is transported forward in time to an Atlantis that is sitting abandoned in the middle of a desert. And in that episode it is revealed that within thirty years naquadah generators will be so advanced that each each one will be able to operate the Atlantis shield for 800 years. Obviously that is way less than a ZPM but it does demonstrate an example of this advancement in canon. According to the Wiki, the current generators in the show are Mark 2 and 3, whereas the one from the future timeline is called a Mark 12. And yes this is an alternate timeline but an alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate dimension. It'll happen sooner or later in the main timeline.

This is another good example BTW of just how much better Tau'ri was allowed to be by the scriptwriters when backward engineering alien tech. Realistically, you don't need a battery that lasts 10,000 years when you have one that lasts 800 years and can have its fuel easily replaced - which is kind of the key failing of the ZPM. The Ancients were real fans of truly impractical stuff. Obviously its good for us that stargates and ZPMs still work thousands of years later, but there was no real reason at the time they designed all of this stuff like that.

I like how the Asgard were like, ''we are taking all of our tech with us apart from this one database that we are giving the race that we have appointed our successors. Lets not leave all of these doomsday devices hanging around for all to use.''

[McAvoy]

There are many issues regarding the use of power of stars compared to ZPMs:
-Because it's external, this makes your ship vulnerable to cutoff: this was a big issue when the alien drones figured out a way to catch up to Destiny, they would just park in front of the star and when Destiny was about to head towards it, they would engage. A ZPM, by virtue of being internal power source, gets rid of this problem all together.
-Waste heat: as shown in Echoes and SGU S2 finale, residual heat from the star will slowly build up inside the ship, and eventually you'll cook alive. Even with the ZPM boost, the Daedalus shields were just not strong enough to stop heat from the CME from bleeding though the shields. Destiny barely spent more than 1-2 minutes inside each star, not enough to heat up significantly.
-There is also the issue of Destiny having to actually dive inside the star for refueling, which makes sense, outer layers of a star have very low density compared to the deeper regions, which was the big issue when they had to dive inside that blue giant for emergency refueling. I don't know how many people would be alright with actually living inside a friggin' star.

So unless the Ancients developed some advanced and efficient form of star lifting, the way Destiny gets its power is not very efficient for powering a civilization.

Regarding the inconsistent power of ZPMs shown on screen, most of them that were found were mostly depleted, so they were near the end of their life, but another factor to consider is the type. Just like our current generation of batteries are more efficient than the ones from 10 or 30 years ago, it's possible that many ZPMs shown were of an older generation that were less efficient or got depleted too quickly. I do wonder in that case if the reason why the Ancients were so determined to hide that "Potentia" ZPM is because that one was the latest model, which was superior to all of their current ones, but couldn't get to Atlantis because the gate was locked from being dialed from Pegasus before the Ancients left, the ZPM facility being offworld.

Its interesting that you mention different ''generations'' of ZPM. They repeat this show often in the UK and I saw one recently called ''The Last Man''. This is the one where Shepherd is transported forward in time to an Atlantis that is sitting abandoned in the middle of a desert. And in that episode it is revealed that within thirty years naquadah generators will be so advanced that each each one will be able to operate the Atlantis shield for 800 years. Obviously that is way less than a ZPM but it does demonstrate an example of this advancement in canon. According to the Wiki, the current generators in the show are Mark 2 and 3, whereas the one from the future timeline is called a Mark 12. And yes this is an alternate timeline but an alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate dimension. It'll happen sooner or later in the main timeline.

This is another good example BTW of just how much better Tau'ri was allowed to be by the scriptwriters when backward engineering alien tech. Realistically, you don't need a battery that lasts 10,000 years when you have one that lasts 800 years and can have its fuel easily replaced - which is kind of the key failing of the ZPM. The Ancients were real fans of truly impractical stuff. Obviously its good for us that stargates and ZPMs still work thousands of years later, but there was no real reason at the time they designed all of this stuff like that.

I like how the Asgard were like, ''we are taking all of our tech with us apart from this one database that we are giving the race that we have appointed our successors. Lets not leave all of these doomsday devices hanging around for all to use.''

Its not that they need a battery (ZPM) to last 10000 years it's that they are capable of lasting that long when a much lower load is placed on it. We have seen that fully charged ZPMs can be drained within days.

Also reliablity is a big deal too. Obviously the Ancients built things to truly last. Hell Destiny is ancient by even Ancient standards and yes she is breaking down and I think operating at around 20-25% efficiency I think, it's still operational.

Naval ships need to be constantly repaired even if they sit at their mooring. Take for example the museum battleship USS Texas. The ship was listing before she was put into dock to be repaired. Reports of the museum ship USS Olympia is that she might not be in any condition to be towed and she needs to be brought into dock too. I heard a report the battleship Wisconsin's sides are now bulged out.