The Marvels and the death of the M-She-U

[Thebestoftherest]

Nobody700 I think you made the best argument on this forum in the past year.

[hammerofglass]

Just out of curiosity did anyone here but m4a2000 actually watch it yet?

[Nobody700]

Just out of curiosity did anyone here but m4a2000 actually watch it yet?

I been busy and I never liked Captain marvel as a character, so no. I will however bash those who's reason is 'women' when mine is the superior 'I never liked this character.'

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Just out of curiosity did anyone here but m4a2000 actually watch it yet?

I'm going to watch it Sunday. We were going to watch it today but my partner hurt their foot and is having trouble with stairs.

[Thebestoftherest]

I'm watching it the day after tomorrow

[Thebestoftherest]

Just out of curiosity did anyone here but m4a2000 actually watch it yet?

I been busy and I never liked Captain marvel as a character, so no. I will however bash those who's reason is 'women' when mine is the superior 'I never liked this character.'

I feel she works better as part of the team, so I have hope for Marvels.

[Winter]

I deplore the M-She-U comments cause it seems to me that it just is 'women? WOMEN BAD!' and doesn't account for what is really killing the MCU.

1. Too much. This is hugely saturated and just comes off that they're factory turning them. MCU movies used to be an event, a fuck yeah here it is. Now it feels meh and boring, cause it happens so much! They need to curate this more, pivot back to six films. MAYBE 2 shows, but 6 movies in a 3 year phase. Not 9 in two years.

2. Less care. It's obvious the actual quality has gone down, and why? Number one. They're making so much, so there is no time for care. These films have to come out NOW! No actual time to care for what we're making, we gotta make a billion dollars with this film that oh no lost us money.

3. General apathy. People... don't watch MCU cause we got shit in lives and now we need to be more careful with our money. Economy is garbage cause of a lot so watching all these films as they go on, nah I need to save up. I spent 7 dollars to watch with my wife a film at my local theatre, where big movie experiences are now like 30 bucks for the same thing. People are selective, and sadly, MCU is not gonna win all the time.

People saying it's cause of 'SJW's and the like... are just idiots who need to shut the fuck up. It was never social justice that ruined the MCU, it was bad writing. This is something assholes and idiots cannot fathom, and frankly, a lot of their arguments DO come off as bigoted. Yes, sometimes it can be cringe how BADLY it is done, but the actual message of 'perhaps women can save the day' OFFENDING YOU, makes you the soyboy. Not the reverse.

I still argue that there are many entries in the MCU that are good if not great.

Here's a list of shows and or movies that have been positively recieved by critics and fans AND have done well financially.

WandaVision+
The Falcon and the Winter Solider+
Loki+
Black Widow
What If...?+
Shang-Chi and the Legends of the Ten Rings
Hawkeye+
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Moon Knight+
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Ms. Marvel+
Thor: Love and Thunder (yeah I was surprised too)
Werewolf by Night+
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special+
The Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
The Marvels

Ones that are more mixed to negative

Eternals
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law+
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
Secret Invasion+

This is not a case of personal opinion, I went around and checked the review sites to see what the general opinion of each of these stories was like. And as you can see there are more stories that have been well recieved then ones that have been poorly recieved. And in terms of films that have actually bombed at the box office that is a grand total of 4 in 4 years.

Eternals
Quantumania
The Marvels
Black Widow

Again, this isn't personal opinion this is a result of me taking the time to look at the reception and numbers and both back up the idea that the MCU is doing just fine and has only hit a few bad apples which happens in any series that goes on for this long.

And let's keep in mind that the Infinity Saga wasn't filled with nothing but critical darlings. The TV series released at the time were mostly seen as just okay at best. The Netflix shows were the exception and depending on who you ask most of the Netflix shows didn't match the hype. And outside of Netflix most of the shows were seen as just okay and with the Inhumans being the soul out-layer... for being just absolutely horrible that many felt that it marked the beginning of the end of the MCU.

And in terms of the films many felt Phase 2 was a massive step down from Phase 1 and Phase 1 was being called, at the time of release with it's films, just okay with most of the films being forgettable and that Iron Man and The Avengers were the soul exceptions.

And as for the MCU producing to much during the Infinity Saga Marvel Studios was producing no less then 12 TV shows many of which were running at the same time for about 8 years with total of 21 seasons when combined. And this was all during Phases 2 and 3 which saw the release of 17 movies.

At the time of this writing Phase 4 and 5 also have only 10 movies and 10 series (11 seasons as of this writing) along with 2 specials. That means that right now the Multiverse Saga has produced LESS projects then the Infinity Saga right now.

Now in my opinion I do think that Phase 4 and 5 isn't quite as good as Phase 3 which I see as the real breadwinner of the series and my overall feeling is that these phases are just mixed. There are some ones that I like I personally find Hawkeye to be hugely underrated, Spider-Man: No Way Home is obviously amazing, despite my issues with the lead actor due to a comments of hers on the rights of Transgenders Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is fantastic.

Honestly I've liked most of phase 4 and 5 but I do agree that it has some real stinkers. I did not care for Thor 4, Black Widow was a disappointment and nothing I've seen or heard of She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and Secret Invasion has made me want to check it out (mind you I've been seriously busy right now so haven't had much chance to check a lot of things out so keep that in mind). But on the whole I think it just not as good there's just enough great stories that make up for it.

I think the main issue here is that everyone just getting tried of the MCU in the same way that a lot of franchises have people getting tired of them. It happened to Star Wars, it happened to Star Trek and it happened to the DC Animated Universe. People feel like there's to much of this series and want to take a break from it.

Like I said most of the films and shows have been well recieved and have done well with critics and audience.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Infinity wars was much more than the end of phase 3. When you’re thinking in terms of momentum from film to film, there was consistent growth and expansion of universe scope, both movie by movie and phase by phase.

The new stuff is more staring something new rather than building upon what they did before. It might as well be compared to phase 2 at this point and for all intent and purpose.

[McAvoy]

Snip

My big thing is the writing for female protagonists when it's bad ends up being an excuse for the 'anti-woke' people for all female protagonists. That having a gay couple is woke when in this day and age this should be normal now. There add gay couples. Now they are not hiding it. As opposed to the old jokes of those two guys in that house that like to jog together in the morning in matching outfits sort of thing.

Some say this all stems from Ghostbusters 2016 and how polarized it made everyone. Four female cast members instead of four males like the original, and that is without knowing what the movie was even about. IMO, I hate the movie but that initial reaction is annoying. But this is not new as I do remember how annoyed some got in race or gender swapping before that movie.

Remember Battlestar Galactica and that whole thing with Starbuck? That was actually a big deal with the fan community. At least with that show, it was so good and THAT Starbuck was so good that overall it was forgotten. I wonder if instead of 2004, it was 2023 whether the fan community would be so forgiving. They may end up focusing on all of the flaws of the charscter instead.

I previously said that if Brie never said the things she said leading up to her Captain Marvel movie, the movie may have been just remembered as a mediocre move. But it's remembered because of Brie and what she said and how she acted in interviews with cast members for Endgame. All of those rumors reported by the likes of Doomcock about alternate cuts of no Captain Marvel in Endgame and all that.

What Brie Lawson said reminds me when a sports player will remark on something political that has nothing to do with their sport. Their critics say 'Just play the sport'. Or 'you are payed to play a sport, not to tell me how to think'.

In other words, 'Dance Monkey, Dance'.

[hammerofglass]

I always lumped the backlash against Ghostbusters (especially the early parts when all there was was an announcement) in with Gamergate. In the online spaces I frequented at the time it was 100% the same people using the same talking points for both. They called themselves anti-SJW rather than anti-woke back then but otherwise they haven't really changed since.