Star Wars: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

[Ordo]

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The Last Jedi is being praised for not fitting into the preconceived notions of fans and disregarding various headcanons, but it does this by ignoring virtually everything that was set up in the first movie.
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Yet another problem I have is Rey's training. Yoda has the line (paraphrasing) about students outgrowing/surpassing their masters, but I never got the sense that Rey actually needed Luke at all. We never see her using anything he taught her.

The fanon version of this film was "Rey is tempted by the Dark Side" - we didn't get that at all. No, Rey is straight out of Circle of Iron. The answers have always been within!

Everyone else gets to make errors that kill dozens to thousands. Rey just makes a few holes in an old monastery. I mean, that sliced stone could have easily *killed* one of the nuns. Playing it as a joke was not that fantastic, when it was such an opportunity to develop the characters.

If a nun had died because of Rey we'd actually see some internal tension, and possibly buy in for half a second that Rey joining the First Order is on the table. What if Luke has to acknowledge that this flawed student is the only chance to save the galaxy, and press on with the training anyway? What if Rey *wanted* to slice off the stone and kill something - even a hamsterduck? What if Luke has to actually contemplate striking down another student?

Rey's failure put Kylo Ren in charge of the First Order...and that was the lesser of two evils. When she showed up, she was counting on Kylo Ren to save the day...and literally had NO CHANCE against Snoke. Snoke tossed her around like a rag doll, ripped the location of Skywalker from her mind, then intended to dispatch her right then and there. Had Kylo Ren chosen otherwise she would've doomed Luke, the Resistance and the galaxy to darkness. Even with Kylo in charge the only reason she made it out alive is because Holdo made a sacrifice that allowed her to escape.

Now, because of her mistakes she's got a MUCH harder road to force mastery and an enemy that holds so many advantages over her and her friends that it's not funny. In fact, Holdo's sacrifice is the only reason they have a chance militarily since she wrecked Snoke ship which pulls double duty as a mobile construction and repair dock. It's the FO's primary facility and it's loss plus the destruction of several Star Destroyers will set the FO back. Luke's actions actually inspired people to stand against the First Order...and since Leia's call went unanswered that is IMMENSELY important. The two best things Rey did was pull the Tie fighters away from the Resistance (And that assault failed anyways) and clear the path for the remaining Resistance members to escape aboard the Falcon.

[Madner Kami]

Do we, now that Snoke is dead, actually get any indication towards who the flying fuck he is?

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Rey's failure put Kylo Ren in charge of the First Order...and that was the lesser of two evils. When she showed up, she was counting on Kylo Ren to save the day...and literally had NO CHANCE against Snoke. Snoke tossed her around like a rag doll, ripped the location of Skywalker from her mind, then intended to dispatch her right then and there. Had Kylo Ren chosen otherwise she would've doomed Luke, the Resistance and the galaxy to darkness. Even with Kylo in charge the only reason she made it out alive is because Holdo made a sacrifice that allowed her to escape.

Now, because of her mistakes she's got a MUCH harder road to force mastery and an enemy that holds so many advantages over her and her friends that it's not funny. In fact, Holdo's sacrifice is the only reason they have a chance militarily since she wrecked Snoke ship which pulls double duty as a mobile construction and repair dock. It's the FO's primary facility and it's loss plus the destruction of several Star Destroyers will set the FO back. Luke's actions actually inspired people to stand against the First Order...and since Leia's call went unanswered that is IMMENSELY important. The two best things Rey did was pull the Tie fighters away from the Resistance (And that assault failed anyways) and clear the path for the remaining Resistance members to escape aboard the Falcon.

Given what we've seen, the Resistance would much rather go up against an unstable, less powerful Kylo Ren than the super powerful Snoke. So while she failed to convert Kylo Ren, giving Kylo the opening to kill Snoke is a net positive for them. I don't see how her mistakes give her a harder road to force mastery. She's pretty much the only one who isn't at fault for what happened to the Resistance.

Rey hasn't been given a chance to accomplish all that much yet, that's true. She hasn't "saved the day" in either movie. And yet despite a few vague hints that ended up going nowhere, we haven't seen an internal struggle either. For a movie that reduced the guy who you'd expect to be a wise, experienced master to an almost unrecognizable shadow of his former self in order to send its "failure is how you learn" message, it's odd that the up and coming hero is the only one who hasn't stumbled as a character. And if it hasn't happened through two movies, I don't really expect it to happen at all.

On another note, I feel like there were some seeds laid that could hint at a larger than expected role for Luke in the next movie (especially with Carrie Fisher's passing), and maybe more training for Rey. For example, Yoda giving Luke advice on how to train Rey after they've already parted for the last time. Luke said he would give "three lessons," but from my count he only gave two. But at this point they've sent so many false signals in the name of "subverting expectations" that I'm not really holding out a ton of hope that they're going to start following through on any of them.

Do we, now that Snoke is dead, actually get any indication towards who the flying fuck he is?

No hints whatsoever.

[Ordo]

Given what we've seen, the Resistance would much rather go up against an unstable, less powerful Kylo Ren than the super powerful Snoke.

That remains to be seen. Powerful as Snoke was in the force, he was physically frail and clearly had blindspots that could be exploited. Now Kylo Ren and his fellow fallen students are running things. We may have traded one force user in for six.

I don't see how her mistakes give her a harder road to force mastery. She's pretty much the only one who isn't at fault for what happened to the Resistance.

She has even less guidance than Luke, and has more enemies. She's got a very hard road ahead of her.

Rey hasn't been given a chance to accomplish all that much yet, that's true. She hasn't "saved the day" in either movie. And yet despite a few vague hints that ended up going nowhere, we haven't seen an internal struggle either. For a movie that reduced the guy who you'd expect to be a wise, experienced master to an almost unrecognizable shadow of his former self in order to send its "failure is how you learn" message, it's odd that the up and coming hero is the only one who hasn't stumbled as a character. And if it hasn't happened through two movies, I don't really expect it to happen at all.

I don't see how her getting thrown around by Snoke and nearly dooming the galaxy at large is not her stumbling. She screwed up badly and as unhinged as Kylo Ren was towards the end of the film...he was still going to win if Luke hadn't intervened.

[Ordo]

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wa ... heories/2/

“When I was working on the character of Kylo, I came to a place where I thought the most interesting thing would be to knock the shaky foundation out from under him at the beginning of this movie,” Johnson said. “By the end of this film, he’s gone from being a wannabe Vader to someone who is standing on his own feet as a complex villain taking the reins.”

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Given what we've seen, the Resistance would much rather go up against an unstable, less powerful Kylo Ren than the super powerful Snoke.

That remains to be seen. Powerful as Snoke was in the force, he was physically frail and clearly had blindspots that could be exploited. Now Kylo Ren and his fellow fallen students are running things. We may have traded one force user in for six.

If Kylo wasn't presented with a unique opportunity to take Snoke down, they may very well have had to face Snoke, Ren and the Knights of Ren. If the Knights of Ren are actually going to turn out to be a thing, that is.

She has even less guidance than Luke, and has more enemies. She's got a very hard road ahead of her.

Well, no guidance hasn't slowed her down so far. I'm not saying the task before her doesn't look impossibly large, only that it's pretty much everybody's fault except her own.

I don't see how her getting thrown around by Snoke and nearly dooming the galaxy at large is not her stumbling. She screwed up badly and as unhinged as Kylo Ren was towards the end of the film...he was still going to win if Luke hadn't intervened.

Three points on that-

I don't necessarily mean that she didn't make a mistake, I mean that she hasn't had a spiritual struggle like every Star Wars hero from Anakin to Luke to Jyn Erso has had. We know she isn't as powerful as Snoke, Luke, or even Kylo Ren yet, but everything she has done so far has been heroic and with the best of intentions.

I find it odd that Rey's mistake is the only one that not only doesn't hurt the cause, but arguably benefits them and may benefit them further in the future.

Rey's decision could have turned out badly, but was it really that bad of a decision given the information available to her? Luke made it perfectly clear he isn't helping, and he's given her no reason whatsoever to believe he's going to change his mind. If you go in with the assumption that Luke isn't going to help, then trying to turn Kylo makes sense as a desperate, final attempt to save the galaxy.

[Draco Dracul]

Do we, now that Snoke is dead, actually get any indication towards who the flying fuck he is?

Going by his ropes and throne room, I assume he was some manner of dark side pornographer.

[King of the owls]

Going by his ropes and throne room, I assume he was some manner of dark side pornographer.

Well something has to be paying for all the weapons and crap the first order has. Dark side themed fetish porn could be it.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I'm glad they did the Kylo Killing Snoke thing. Snoke as a character was clearly always going to just be a Sidious clone. And with all the thematic significance of how Sith always overthrow their master, this is the time time we saw that play out in a main numbered Episode. Kylo leading the villains himself finally makes this story more then just an OT rehash.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah, it was okay. Actually, no, no it wasn't. I feel like this is going to be one of those movies where I'm either on the wrong side of history or ahead of my time. Basically, my opinion of the movie is a resounding "eh." This is probably my least favorite of the Star Wars films and that includes the Prequels and Rogue One. I didn't even like Rogue One that much so I may actually be on the verge of disliking this film actively. It's not a badly made film but the direction it takes the characters, mythology, and lore just feels like they aren't very well thought out.

The premise is Rey has gone to Luke Skywalker's residence near the First Jedi Temple and finds he's lost all faith in the Jedi Way. We later discover this is because he (justifiably) blames himself for Kylo Ren turning to the Dark Side. Finn and Poe have managed to make it to the Resistance's headquarters but they've been driven to almost extinction by the First Order.

The First Order, despite losing their own Death Star, have all but defeated the New Republic and are poised to eradicate freedom across the galaxy. Kylo Ren is suffering from severe guilt and self-hatred for his murder of his father but has established a powerful force bond with Rey. Then stuff happens, heroes die, heroes live, and the next movie is set up. When the credits rolled, I wasn't filled with a sense of elation or shock but simply the numbness that I didn't buy this was the next chapter of the story.

A big problem with this is Luke Skywalker. I'm not going to spoil anything but the answers for why he's gone into hiding are incomplete as well as out of character. To make an example, let's just say someone did a movie where Superman and Batman tried to kill one another. Where Superman was a brooding antihero and Batman killed...oh wait. Yeah, that's my feelings on The Last Jedi in a nutshell. This is the Batman vs. Superman of the Star Wars universe. Luke Skywalker is so grossly out of character that he's not recognizably Luke Skywalker at all so you can't really emotionally connect to the guy.

Given Luke Skywalker is the single most influential fictional character in my life. A guy who literally inspired my five year old self to become religious and aspire to be the nicest person I could be as an adult--this is not good. It doesn't fit with the Luke Skywalker of Return of the Jedi but it doesn't fit with the Luke Skywalker of The Force Awakens either. It reads like Rian Johnson's fanfic of Luke Skywalker so the ending just falls flat for me. Mark Hamill does the role but you can tell his heart isn't in it and he'd have probably enjoyed doing anything else.

Daisy Ridley's Rey has some revelations about herself, her parentage, and plenty of other magical mysterious things which are probably the one really bright spot in the movie for me. I don't have any problem with Rey and while she's greatly overpowered, so was Luke in Return of the Jedi. I'm fine with her being the Galen Marek of the new franchise and she's a likable entertaining heroine throughout. I think the story would have been better if they'd gone a different direction with her parentage but it's not terrible the way Luke's treatment is.

Adam Driver's Kylo Ren gets a treatment of the movie which I'm a bit iffier about. I mentioned the "fanfic" parallel earlier and this is how I felt about him. Kylo Ren has gone from being a creepy boy pretending to be Darth Vader to being a misunderstood broody loner who exceeds his idol in several cases. Rey and he have a lot of romantic tension that just feels completely out of place in Star Wars given the franchise has largely avoided showing evil as anything decent or romantic. The fact Finn's relationship with Rey is completely glossed over also feels like Hollywood may have an issue with the racial dynamics. I'm not saying it does but it seems notable the black male lead is unceremoniously set up with another woman.

Carrie Fisher's farewell performance was extremely moving in light of real life events and I quickly bonded with Laura Dern's Admiral Holdo. The send off to another character was sudden and anticlimatic but also fitting. I also think if they had to kill one character at the end, which they didn't I'd like to point out, they probably did it in the best way they could have. Even so, a lot of characters die in this movie and not all of them were necessary or for the good of the story.

The special effects are beautiful, the fight scenes were terrific, and there's parts I wouldn't have minded if they'd been in the third movie but am angry for in being the second part since they leave the story a mess. I love the Porgs (albeit I'm horrified as to what Chewie did with one) and think the casino planet had a remarkably cynical view on war profiteering which did a better job than any of the Prequels explaining how Lucas views the Military Industrial Complex.

Also, despite the fact I'm disappointed with the lack of a Finn and Rey romance, I have to say I enjoyed the character of Rose. She's a genki and enthusiastic new addition to the cast and I love how she helps even out the testosterone to estrogen level. She makes some weird choices and falls for Finn too fast but I don't mind them as a couple. I also like how she plays against his character as he continues to grow into a full-fledged hero of the Resistance.

But did I like the movie? No. No I didn't. Worse, I can't really think of it as the future of my Star Wars so when I think of the next film, I have very little excitement. It's a shame because John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, and Oscar Isaacs were terrific in the film. In fact, just about everyone was. It was the script and storytelling choices which sucked.

4/10