Hamas Attacks Israel

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

It drives me up the wall that "Killing 10,000+ children is bad" is controversial. Like the degree to which public figures in my country pussy-foot around this and make excuses for war crimes is sickening.

Its weird to me. You side with Hamas you are considered antisemitic even if you are not. The other side where you side with Israel you have people whose party is followed by true antisemitic people.

Giving the land back to the Jews that haven't held power over if since Roman times is amusing to me. Almost like giving back the land Europeans took from the Native Americans. At least that happened much more recently compared to the Jews. Yeah sure the Jew went through a Holocaust, but so did the Native Americans. It amuses me in a dark humor sort of way.

Honestly, for that party it comes down to which do they hate more Jews or Muslims.

For me the whole thing in general is so complicated. The land by itself holds no value. Sand and rocks, but holds so much to the three Abrahamic religions.

Like I said it is weird to me.

We all know what Israel is trying to do.

There are 1.8 billion Muslims which is 24.1% of the global population.
There are 15.2 million Jews which is 0.2% of the global population.

There are 49 Muslim countries.
There is 1 Jewish country.

The Jews are a heavily at risk minority that needs protecting - and I thought we were all about protecting and empowering minorities nowadays? As i've said many times before, I am willing to accept that they are going too far right now, but I can absolutely understand why they feel the need to do what they are doing. And if you lived there, if we were talking about YOUR State, YOUR country, YOUR family, YOUR friends, so would YOU. You were a military man, I know that you believe in fighting for your people.

You very dismissively mentioned the Holocaust. Let me give you another interesting figure: 60% of the worldwide Jewish population was murdered in WW2. That is just under half of all Jews living today. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/es ... l-solution

You say that the land holds no value. I disagree. You say that it is dumb. I disagree. Having their own country is the ONLY way to ensure their survival. If Israel was to vanish and the Jews threw themselves upon the mercy of the world they would die by the millions. Hamas already has multiple cells in Europe waiting to do so.

And BTW you also brought up the Native Americans. Fine, we can all agree that was disgusting. But the United States isn't still actively trying to murder them as we speak. They're safe, the Jews are not.

So you think all of this justifies genocide? Fuck whoever was living there already. Force them out or kill them if they won't leave, then kill them when they do leave anyway.

You also seem to think that the only way for a people to survive is to create an ethnostate, which is patently false.

How would YOU feel if somebody bulldozed YOUR neighborhood because they said there was a terrorist hiding in it?

Why is the moral impetus on the Palestinians to leave or die for the sake of somebody else?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Fuzzy it looks like he’s talking about the controversy surrounding the establishment of the state per the post wwii resolution.

[McAvoy]

Native Americans don't have a country of their own either. They are on reservations scattered throughout North America. They may not be in any danger anymore, sure. Where is their representation?

BTW, there are roughly the same amount of Jews in the US as there are in Israel. Jews are in no danger in the US outside the typical white supremacy groups we have here. There is nearly 8 million Jews in the US. Take a wild guess how many Native Americans there are in the US?

Lastly, clearspira. My brother married into a Jewish-Catholic family. While his wife's father denounced his Jewness to marry his Italian Catholic wife, his side is still very much Jewish. Through them, from family functions that I attend, I am fully aware of how American Jews feel about Israel. They are mostly pro-Israel but they already are aware that as they put it 'weaponizing Jewish grief'.

Israel being a country NOW, whether or they held the land thousands of years ago or not does not excuse committing escalating murder due to terrorist attacks.

[phantom000]

BTW, there are roughly the same amount of Jews in the US as there are in Israel. Jews are in no danger in the US outside the typical white supremacy groups we have here. There is nearly 8 million Jews in the US.

That is one question I have been curious about; how many people consider themselves Jewish but are not Israeli citizens? I have been searching online but can't seem to find any statistics.

[McAvoy]

BTW, there are roughly the same amount of Jews in the US as there are in Israel. Jews are in no danger in the US outside the typical white supremacy groups we have here. There is nearly 8 million Jews in the US.

That is one question I have been curious about; how many people consider themselves Jewish but are not Israeli citizens? I have been searching online but can't seem to find any statistics.

You mean someone living outside Israel but consider themselves citizens? That is hard, because some just consider Israel a Jewish country and not a homeland. I can only go by the populations. Some of which hasn't been update by almost a decade. The US population is up to date as of 2020.

France, UK, and Canada are the three next largest Jewish populations. But they are below about less than half a million each or far less. UK has 250k. My state alone has far more than that.

[phantom000]

You mean someone living outside Israel but consider themselves citizens?

I mean the opposite. I am talking about people who claim to be Jewsish but do not claim to be citizens of the state of Israel.

I know Israel extended citizenship to any and all Jews but how many actually took them up on the offer and how many said 'thank you, but I'm happy right here.'

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm at a loss about your query as well.

Israel offered citizenship status to Jewish people. It sounds like you're suggesting they said every Jewish person is now a citizen of Israel, which is different.

Plus it wasn't a formal invitation with an RSVP or anything. You would need to take a survey of every Jewish region in the world to get that kind of an answer.

[hammerofglass]

Before October I had never heard the "all Jews are dependant on and owe allegiance to Israel" from anyone who actually liked Israel. Quite often from people who absolutely hated Jews, though.

The full 180 from "only antisemites say this" to "if you disagree with this you're antisemitic" the establishment tried to pull so they could dismiss any criticism of Israel as antisemitic gave me whiplash.

[McAvoy]

I'm at a loss about your query as well.

Israel offered citizenship status to Jewish people. It sounds like you're suggesting they said every Jewish person is now a citizen of Israel, which is different.

Plus it wasn't a formal invitation with an RSVP or anything. You would need to take a survey of every Jewish region in the world to get that kind of an answer.

Yeah no doubt it would be hard that kind of information.

I once watched a four part documentary on teh history of Jews a long time ago and they got to the history where Jews were leaving Europe for US even before the rise of the Nazis. There were interviews that some Jews actually considered the US a new homeland for them. As in, a land of milk and honey and safer than what was happening in Europe despite the distrust and hatred some of the US citizens had for the there as well. This is before Israel.

I wouldn't be surprised if most American Jews don't consider themselves to be part of Israel but naturally having their concerns on what happens there. I do know that the younger generations of American Jews are slowly becoming less supportive of Israel compared to the older generations. Maybe it's because the farther away we get from the Holocaust and less and less it becomes a living memory, the more likely the younger generation will view it far differently.

[CmdrKing]

Before October I had never heard the "all Jews are dependant on and owe allegiance to Israel" from anyone who actually liked Israel. Quite often from people who absolutely hated Jews, though.

The full 180 from "only antisemites say this" to "if you disagree with this you're antisemitic" the establishment tried to pull so they could dismiss any criticism of Israel as antisemitic gave me whiplash.

That association has been there for a very long time, but during major military actions Israel puts a lot of effort into maintaining that talking point. Any objective analysis of the situation reveals it as abject nonsense (see how the talking point is so much more readily picked up by the right) but it takes a lot of effort to really deconstruct it fully so there's a substantial, if shrinking, population of people who immediately flip to "I MUST SUPPORT ISRAEL" the moment a big attack happens.