The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[ProfessorDetective]

So genuine thing, I know why Republicans have bent over for Putin, but why so many american conservatives? Have things gotten so bad for them that they genuinely, unironically, believe that this man is a better leader than democracy?

No, they think TRUMP is and Trump likes Putin. Also, Putin aligns with their "99% of humanity isn't actually human and needs to die" end goals.

[Nobody700]

So genuine thing, I know why Republicans have bent over for Putin, but why so many american conservatives? Have things gotten so bad for them that they genuinely, unironically, believe that this man is a better leader than democracy?

People don’t want to pay for the war itself they aren’t much concerned about picking sides.

I don't even mean this war, I mean more the fact that they legit think Putin is a good leader and want a ruler like him.

[hammerofglass]

So genuine thing, I know why Republicans have bent over for Putin, but why so many american conservatives? Have things gotten so bad for them that they genuinely, unironically, believe that this man is a better leader than democracy?

I think a lot of them are just people that the rapid rate of social progress over the last 50-60 years was too much for them to process and they want a daddy who can make it go away and just tell them what to do and what to believe.

Although the version of Putin they get fed on Fox and Newsmax that they actually want doesn't really resemble the reality very much, so a lot of it is they're just being lied too.

[Madner Kami]

So genuine thing, I know why Republicans have bent over for Putin, but why so many american conservatives? Have things gotten so bad for them that they genuinely, unironically, believe that this man is a better leader than democracy?

I think a lot of them are just people that the rapid rate of social progress over the last 50-60 years was too much for them to process and they want a daddy who can make it go away and just tell them what to do and what to believe.

Although the version of Putin they get fed on Fox and Newsmax that they actually want doesn't really resemble the reality very much, so a lot of it is they're just being lied too.

Yup, it's a repeat of the 1920s/1930s.

[Riedquat]

[*]Hitler's ideas are realized in the West (of note: When Russia speaks of "Nazis", they do not actually mean Nazism as we'd understand it. You genuinely should understand "Nazi" as "Anti-Russian" specifically and solely, when you read or hear it from a russian source.)

On that front, nope. That's just deliberate twisting of a word with huge negative connotations in order to demonise those who oppose you. Claiming "Oh, it doesn't mean that here" is absurd - if they've actually come to use the word in that way in Russia it's just another illustration of how far they've gone in to fooling themselves with their own propaganda.

In short it's all the same sort of BS as the rest of Putin's claims (the only one with a slightly genuine greivance might be still being seen as an enemy after the Cold War, but even that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny).

[Madner Kami]

[*]Hitler's ideas are realized in the West (of note: When Russia speaks of "Nazis", they do not actually mean Nazism as we'd understand it. You genuinely should understand "Nazi" as "Anti-Russian" specifically and solely, when you read or hear it from a russian source.)

On that front, nope. That's just deliberate twisting of a word with huge negative connotations in order to demonise those who oppose you. Claiming "Oh, it doesn't mean that here" is absurd - if they've actually come to use the word in that way in Russia it's just another illustration of how far they've gone in to fooling themselves with their own propaganda.

I'm not clear on whether you're agreeing with my note or disagreeing with it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

[*]Hitler's ideas are realized in the West (of note: When Russia speaks of "Nazis", they do not actually mean Nazism as we'd understand it. You genuinely should understand "Nazi" as "Anti-Russian" specifically and solely, when you read or hear it from a russian source.)

On that front, nope. That's just deliberate twisting of a word with huge negative connotations in order to demonise those who oppose you. Claiming "Oh, it doesn't mean that here" is absurd - if they've actually come to use the word in that way in Russia it's just another illustration of how far they've gone in to fooling themselves with their own propaganda.

I'm not clear on whether you're agreeing with my note or disagreeing with it.

I believe it’s the concept and not your iteration that he’s at odds with.

[Riedquat]

[*]Hitler's ideas are realized in the West (of note: When Russia speaks of "Nazis", they do not actually mean Nazism as we'd understand it. You genuinely should understand "Nazi" as "Anti-Russian" specifically and solely, when you read or hear it from a russian source.)

On that front, nope. That's just deliberate twisting of a word with huge negative connotations in order to demonise those who oppose you. Claiming "Oh, it doesn't mean that here" is absurd - if they've actually come to use the word in that way in Russia it's just another illustration of how far they've gone in to fooling themselves with their own propaganda.

I'm not clear on whether you're agreeing with my note or disagreeing with it.

I suppose disagreeing, since I find the idea that they can conveniently re-define Nazism like that absurd, especially when talking to an international audience, although they might be fooling themselves. If they truly believe that Nazism doesn't contain all the negative connotations it does and does just mean someone who doesn't look towards Russia (see why it's such an absurd claim that it's shifted?) then that doesn't help Putin's argument either - "Of course we were in the right to attack them because they're not our lapdogs" is all it would say then.

What it might be is that Russia has developed such odious, obnoxious prejudices and paranoia that it's unable to distinguish between Nazis and anyone else unimpressed with that festering dump.

[Madner Kami]

You're looking at it from the completely wrong angle. Nazism for Russia or, rather, the Soviet Union, was never about the extermination of all Jews and other "unworthy life" as it was elsewhere in the world: Largely a problem that didn't apply to anyone but Jews, Gypsies and "Deviants". Outgroups and minorities as they were. The Russian people however, were part of the "Unworthy Life"-category. They were the target of the extermination themselves, so Nazism has always been about them. That Jews and a few other outgroups got killed as well, kinda pales in their eyes in comparison to how many russian people died at german hands (and kinda gets swept under the rug by russian historians, because Russia killed those minorities themselves), namely somewhere between 15 and 19 million *civilian* casulties alone. If you take military casualties into the equation, you're looking at 23 to 27 million russian people killed by Nazis.

And this perception gets carried over into the Cold War, where you could possibly most easily see it in how they used the terminology "Nazi" even back then. Germany was divided and do you know how this wall, how this border was termed? "Antifaschistischer Schutzwall." Anti-Fascist Protection-Wall. The West inherited the moniker "Nazi" or, more generally, "Fascist" in the eyes of the Soviet Union and this terminology has been in use since the 1940s now at the very least. Close to a 90 years. Let that sink in for a moment. Fascim and Nazism does indeed mean something very different to them, then it does to us and we'd do well to consider this perspective, when reading russian things, because Putin and his cronies do come from that milieu and even if they know better, they'll ruthlessly use this.

[Riedquat]

Quite honestly I find that that sounds like making excuses - all you're really saying is that the lazy demonisation of the "enemy" has been going on for a long time. Remember Putin's using this nonsense to try to justify himself to the rest of the world as well as Russians.