What would you change about DS9

[McAvoy]

Avery Brooks made a big deal about having no scene showing Sisko potentially returning due to that perceived idea that black men leaving their family whether true or not.

I thought it was the other way round? That he insisted that there was the mention of the potential he could return to avoid the stigme of him running out on one kid and a pregnant wife.

Yeah that is what I meant. Bad wording on my part.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

That was my take on what you were saying.

[clearspira]

Suprised this hasn't come up yet so let's bring him up: Vic Fontaine.

A little bit of him, fine.

But we didn't get a little bit of him. We got shoehorned in Frank Sinatra numbers bloody everywhere. Sorry, but i'm not watching this show for the singing. This reminds me of when WCW got Kiss to play one week and the crowd spent the whole time chanting ''we want wrestling! we want wrestling!''

And perhaps worse than this, it moved the community hub of DS9 from Quark's bar to Vic's bar. The problem with that being that Vic's bar was boring. Quark's is a cosmopolitan hive of light, colour, noise, interesting aliens, funny backgroud events. Vic's isn't.

As an aside, most of Star Trek's worst moments involve singing. Chuck brought this up when he reinvented the ''odd numbers suck'' rule for the movies. And he is firmly on the money.

[stryke]

Suprised this hasn't come up yet so let's bring him up: Vic Fontaine.

A little bit of him, fine.

All of this.

It's so bloody indulgent too. We get it, you like the Sinatra era, show runnners. Please understand that not everyone likes this stuff as much as you clearly do. One episode like you did with Iggy Pop, sure, that's okay. Hell I even didn't mind getting Ed Sheeren into GoT for one scene as a special treat for Maisie Williams and I'm very much an outlier when it comes to that take. What they did though with Fontaine was way, way, waaaay too much.

I'd say the same about baseball, even if it was no where as bad as the Fontaine indulgence, and at least they established that from the beginning as an integral part of the show.

[Deledrius]

I loved Vic, the songs, and the episodes that involved his club.

I also can't say that you're wrong about any of that.

[Nobody700]

Suprised this hasn't come up yet so let's bring him up: Vic Fontaine.

A little bit of him, fine.

All of this.

It's so bloody indulgent too. We get it, you like the Sinatra era, show runnners. Please understand that not everyone likes this stuff as much as you clearly do. One episode like you did with Iggy Pop, sure, that's okay. Hell I even didn't mind getting Ed Sheeren into GoT for one scene as a special treat for Maisie Williams and I'm very much an outlier when it comes to that take. What they did though with Fontaine was way, way, waaaay too much.

I'd say the same about baseball, even if it was no where as bad as the Fontaine indulgence, and at least they established that from the beginning as an integral part of the show.

I didn't hate Vic, but I also did not care for singing. If it was just he was Nog's fave program for singing and had that episode with Nog, and the heist episode, I'd be fine with it. But like you and Clear said, he appeared way too much. I felt like he had as many scenes as Admiral Ross did, and while I wanted more of Ross, Vic... I wanted less of.

[McAvoy]

They probably could have dropped some episodes of Vic. I don't want him gone because It's Only a Paper Moon is an excellent episode and I do think there needs a couple of episodes of Vic in it. Otherwise it's just a hologram program with some dude. Definitely keep the Seige episode since it is Vic singing when Nog is hurt and the final battle.

I probably could deal without the heist episode honestly.

One person I could deal without is Brial/Brael or whatever you spell the name. I don't know if it was the actor or the actor doing something but man that character was dull. I saw more emotion coming out of Data than him.

[clearspira]

Chuck points out very effectively why the heist episode struggles - it's hypocrisy.

Unlike a lot of people, I think that Avery Brooks wanting to point out the inconvenient truth of a black man LARPing during segregation is actually a valid point to be discussed and is one that we are still having today. Is there a limit? What if we went back a few more years to the 1920s and have Sisko partake in a Dixon Hill novel despite the fact that only a few hundred miles away Black Wall Street is burning? What about a few more years before that to the period of actual sugar plantations?

This is a fascinating subject that strikes at the heart of revisionism, psychology, socialism, the ethics of gaming...

It's just that in doing so, it completely ignores the sexism of the period by having Ezri in a servile role. Even Kira gets sexually harassed/has to use her body at one point.

The resolution of the episode with Sisko just saying ''F-it'' and taking part I don't think works either. That is a 180 that occurs in a very short space of time for someone with such strong views.

This is one episode that could be discarded without anyone missing it because it doesn't really add anything, especially if you don't care about Vic Fontaine. There are so many hanging threads in this season that could have done with an extra 45 minutes to flesh them out.

[hammerofglass]

The resolution of the episode with Sisko just saying ''F-it'' and taking part I don't think works either. That is a 180 that occurs in a very short space of time for someone with such strong views.

This part is also weird because there is an obvious explanation for Sisko's change of heart baked into the scenario that never gets acknowledged. The Rat Pack performers Vic is based on actively pushed against segregation in the casinos they performed in.

[Nobody700]

They probably could have dropped some episodes of Vic. I don't want him gone because It's Only a Paper Moon is an excellent episode and I do think there needs a couple of episodes of Vic in it. Otherwise it's just a hologram program with some dude. Definitely keep the Seige episode since it is Vic singing when Nog is hurt and the final battle.

I probably could deal without the heist episode honestly.

One person I could deal without is Brial/Brael or whatever you spell the name. I don't know if it was the actor or the actor doing something but man that character was dull. I saw more emotion coming out of Data than him.

Holy jesus hated that dude, what a lame ass character who's entire reason to exist is to act badly and kinda have sex with Kira. He gets THREE episodes dedicated all to him? Jaysus.