I like when a Cool Intimidating Villain is Metaphorically Castrated In a sequel, adaptation, reboot or remake.

[KuudereKun]

I like when a Cool Intimidating Villain is Metaphorically Castrated In a sequel, adaptation, reboot or remake.

In the original 1997 TV Anime Revolutionary Girl Utena the character of Akio aka End Of The World is a very cool and charismatic villain, he needs to be for that original version of the Utena story to work the way it does.

But then Ikahara made a movie called Adolescence of Utena that was a reimagining of the entire premise of Utena but also maybe ambiguously a Sequel somehow??? Either way this more than any other Anime Film borne from a TV Anime it is not a stand alone work of art, every detail is wrapped in the Symbolism codified by the original show.

In the movie Akio is no longer cool or charismatic, his first screen makes a Joke out of him and then later he’s presented as absolutely Pathetic. And this was a deliberate artistic choice with deliberate meaning behind it. VraiKaiser in their discussions of the movie breaks it down way better than I can.
https://vraikaiser.com/2014/01/20/i-kno ... nto-a-car/
https://vraikaiser.com/2015/07/04/the-a ... -of-utena/

Originally of course a good chunk of the fanbase had a negative to this decision, how dare you take the coolness away from the cool character I liked. This sentiment was in Jacob Chapman’s review of the movie back when he was known as JesuOtaku. However in this case continuing to feel that way has become more rare, WhiningAboutYuri on Tumblr was very critical of the movie but supported this specific choice. And it wouldn’t surprise me if even Jacob himself has repented of that old bad take.

However The Joker is a different story, that character most people still want to see treated with respect. JackSaint’s video on Suicide Squad’s take on The Joker argues that Leto’s Joker is supposed to be an uncool cringey edge lord, which is also hinted at in Josh McNamee’s Sixteen Attempts to talk to you about "Suicide Squad".

It is a good idea to remind people that the real life Jokers of the world aren’t cool or charismatic but pathetic losers, and the same is true of Adult Men in positions of Authority who take advantage of teenagers. That doesn’t actually make them not dangerous, but it does make them less glamorous.

However there is a certain kind of fan who identifies with such characters even if they would never approve of their actions in real life. And there is a not insignificant overlap between these fans and the kind who become Internet Neo-Reactionaries.

I’m not arguing the “cool” takes on these characters shouldn't exist, I do believe most people can separate fantasy from reality and those who can’t have deeper problems than how they read fiction. I’m simply defending the innate value in taking that coolness from them. The intended message behind having a Pathetic villain is more potent when done to one previously seen as cool then it would be with one who was always depicted as pathetic.

Now for both of those examples I’ve already demonstrated that I’m far from the first to make this defense of them. However as far as I’m aware I’m still the only person to read the Netflix Cowboy Bebop’s take of Vicious this way. And even if I find out others have, I'm still confident I claim to be among the first since I was reading him this was the day of the show's release. Largely because I was already familiar with these two discourses, so I was prepared. But if you’ve seen someone else talk about Vicious this way please link me to it because I would read or watch it.

Netflix Vicious is entirely driven by how insecure in his masculinity he is, a problem that began with his daddy issues. He is all through the show exposed to be a manchild who wants to be seen as intimidating far more than he actually is intimidating. And the people who have that problem in real life who also watch Anime want to be like the Vicious of the original Cowboy Bebop or some other similar kind of Anime villain. I’m not saying everyone who had a knee jerk negative reaction to this reinterpretation of Vicious did so because they are that kind of person, but I am saying this is why they should reconsider the value of this artistic choice.

Now it’s only with Ikuhara that I’m confident this reading was intentional. Ayer and Leto have both said things that lead me to suspect that this isn’t what they intended. With Netflix Bebop I’m more hopeful. But it doesn’t matter because the Author is Dead, this is a valid reading of the text whether those who wrote it like it or not.

And I want to see this done more. As someone who’d devoted a chunk of the online identity to being a Star Wars Prequel Apologist I should show I’m not a hypocrite by saying I’d support Palpatine being given treatment. Of course I’m already Free from hypocrisy here, Batman is my oldest fandom. During the late 2000s and early 2010s I loved quoting Heath Ledger’s Joker to seem cool as much as any else did. Yet I didn’t have a knee jerk negative reaction to Leto’s Joker, I didn’t in 2016 understand yet why I liked it, but I do think on some level this was always why.

In the context of Anime however I think the problematically Idolized Villain who needs to be taken down a peg the most is Light Yagami. And maybe to the fans of Netflix Death Note that’s why that movie works. But the thing is there are lots of reasons I don’t like that movie, all three movies or shows I praised above have a lot more to like about then just doing the thing I named this post after.

More importantly though the way in which Light Turner is Pathetic for most of the film functionally exonerates him of being fully culpable for his sins, his psycho girlfriend is the real monster and she is cool and charismatic (or at least the movie wants her to be). The way the three villains above are Pathetic highlights how horrible they are.

But also the three examples I praised are not at their core entirely different characters from the prior versions that so many people found cool, we’re simply seeing them now from different angles, in different contexts. They do act differently in ways that would make them hard to see as in the same continuity, but the most basic character description is the same, or at least can be. Light Turner lacks any actual similarities to Light Yagami. I don't see him as a different interpretation of the same character, he simply is a different character.
https://mithrandirolorin.blogspot.com/2 ... llain.html

[CharlesPhipps]

Ehhhh.

Akio is a case where I don't necessarily agree with the majority of the idea that villains should lose their menace or "cool" factor but in his case, I'd make an exception because the entirety of Revolutionary Girl Utena is deconstructing cool badass masculinity ideas from the very beginning. People latched onto Akio while apparently completely ignoring THE POINT that he's a sister ****ing nutjob.

Every cool aloof dude is a complete pile of crap.

The problem with it for Vicious is that he's ALREADY FLAWED and pathetic in that his anime version is obsessed with Spike to the point of absolutely no ability to function without him or Julia. That's what makes him dangerous.

[KuudereKun]

Ehhhh.

Akio is a case where I don't necessarily agree with the majority of the idea that villains should lose their menace or "cool" factor but in his case, I'd make an exception because the entirety of Revolutionary Girl Utena is deconstructing cool badass masculinity ideas from the very beginning. People latched onto Akio while apparently completely ignoring THE POINT that he's a sister ****ing nutjob.

Every cool aloof dude is a complete pile of crap.

The problem with it for Vicious is that he's ALREADY FLAWED and pathetic in that his anime version is obsessed with Spike to the point of absolutely no ability to function without him or Julia. That's what makes him dangerous.

So in other words the LA version just put greater emphasis on what was already there.

TBH I barely remember much about him in the Anime, the Anime I enjoy mainly for the one off episodes rather then the overarching plot.

[CharlesPhipps]

Ehhhh.

Akio is a case where I don't necessarily agree with the majority of the idea that villains should lose their menace or "cool" factor but in his case, I'd make an exception because the entirety of Revolutionary Girl Utena is deconstructing cool badass masculinity ideas from the very beginning. People latched onto Akio while apparently completely ignoring THE POINT that he's a sister ****ing nutjob.

Every cool aloof dude is a complete pile of crap.

The problem with it for Vicious is that he's ALREADY FLAWED and pathetic in that his anime version is obsessed with Spike to the point of absolutely no ability to function without him or Julia. That's what makes him dangerous.

So in other words the LA version just put greater emphasis on what was already there.

TBH I barely remember much about him in the Anime, the Anime I enjoy mainly for the one off episodes rather then the overarching plot.

The entire Utena saga is basically meant to be, "Toxic Masculinity: The Series." All of the men have fucked up hang-ups about women, either hating them for being too sexually available, not sexually available enough, too adult, too forward, too weak, or basically too much "the author is obviously critiquing Japanese sexism." Utena being a woman acting like a male action hero and bisexual (with a reference to the Rose of Versailles that predated it) fucking with all of their fragile egos. Even the nicest of the guys in the group really hates that Utena doesn't need him as a protector.

The thing is the show is more clever about this critique than you might think because several plots deal with the fact a lot of them would prefer to be with a partner that was intelligent, forceful, and their friend and that they're all miserable trying to act like Akio the God of Alpha Males.

[KuudereKun]

Correct, we are in complete agreement about Utena. We just differ on Vicious.

[CharlesPhipps]

Correct, we are in complete agreement about Utena. We just differ on Vicious.

Yeah, my take on Vicious being a bad handling in the show is the fact that the Netflix version's biggest problem is that it removes a great deal of pressure from Spike Siegal. When he's talking about the fact that he likes to pay women to shave his balls, which you do you dude, we're not getting the sense that if this guy finds out Spike's true identity then Spike and everyone involved will die. You can do quirky oddball gangsters, Martin Scorceze did a career of them, but the sense of them being scary and intimidating beside that is still there. Vicious being emasulated is less about the idea he's not "cool" anymore so much as we lose all sense of tension.

Spike in the anime is a bounty hunter that is living on borrowed time because the Triads WILL find him and WILL kill him.

Spike the show is a guy who very reasonably could kill Vicious and go back to his life afterward.

My .02 at least.

To go with the Sepiroth example, Sephiroth is one of the whiniest little ****es in all of anime. He's a guy obsessed with his mother and the Oepidal worship of her (and it's not even his real mother). His father is either Hojo or Vincent Valentine but he's not interested in any of that. That doesn't make him any less dangerous, though.

[KuudereKun]

Sephiroth is another character I'd like to see given this treatment.

Vicious is dangerous because of the Power he wields. His failure to scare people up front is what increases his body count, someone with an intimidating presence rarely needs to do anything.

'Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king.'