[TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

For all topics regarding speculative fiction of every stripe. Otherwise known as the Geek Cave.
Post Reply
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4956
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

[TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by CharlesPhipps »

This is one of those random posts that is really just me sharing a thought experiment as television writing certainly doesn't work this way or reality but I think it'd have been interesting in Season Two or even Seaon One that Wesley Crusher might have benefited from giving him the "upgrade" that Julian Bashir got in DS9. Siddig didn't care for the Augment plot and a lot of people felt it didn't work for him anyway while Wesley always struggled to have any sort of plotline until they got him to the Academy (and a lot of people refuse to acknowledge anything but "The First Duty" was any good).

Imagine at some point they discovered that Beverly Crusher had ended up doing the modifications that had resulted in her son getting turned into the wunderkind that he was. You'd actually have to have them dealing with each other and it affecting their relationship in the future. You could have that be what writes off Gates for awhile (maybe she gets a pardon from the Federation). It also forces Wes to re-examine all of his previous accomplishments and know that everything important about him, to quote Tony Stark, came in a bottle.

Augmented Julian never really got much mileage out of being an Augment and I think the episodes with the super geniuses didn't work very well. While it helped explain why Section 31 wanted to recruit him, you could still do those without the Augment element.
Nobody700
Captain
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by Nobody700 »

Ehhhh I GET what you're saying, but it kinda comes off that no one can be intelligent without them. Frankly I do see what you're getting at, but it won't do much for him anyway given how little focus he gets. Revealing him as an augment won't do much for him, while I think it did wonders for Bashir cause he was a main character.
Science Fiction is a genre where anything can happen. Just make sure what happens is enjoyable for yourself and your audience.
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4956
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by CharlesPhipps »

I think part of the reason no one accepted Wesley's intelligence was so much vaster than everyone else's was because, well, you'd think the flagship would already be populated with a bunch of geniuses.
Nobody700
Captain
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by Nobody700 »

CharlesPhipps wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:25 am I think part of the reason no one accepted Wesley's intelligence was so much vaster than everyone else's was because, well, you'd think the flagship would already be populated with a bunch of geniuses.
That's more the fault of everyone being dumb as bricks.
Science Fiction is a genre where anything can happen. Just make sure what happens is enjoyable for yourself and your audience.
User avatar
Nealithi
Captain
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by Nealithi »

Nobody700 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:54 am
CharlesPhipps wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:25 am I think part of the reason no one accepted Wesley's intelligence was so much vaster than everyone else's was because, well, you'd think the flagship would already be populated with a bunch of geniuses.
That's more the fault of everyone being dumb as bricks.
That comes from it being hard to write a room full of smart people and getting it to show up on screen. For one person to be smarter than the others, writers often make the rest of the room dumber.

But the whole flagship of geniuses thing was actually done in an episode. Wesley applying to the Academy and only one could make it. Seriously it was written like Starfleet Academy has a total class size of twenty per year.
Nobody700
Captain
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by Nobody700 »

Nealithi wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:53 am
Nobody700 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:54 am
CharlesPhipps wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:25 am I think part of the reason no one accepted Wesley's intelligence was so much vaster than everyone else's was because, well, you'd think the flagship would already be populated with a bunch of geniuses.
That's more the fault of everyone being dumb as bricks.
That comes from it being hard to write a room full of smart people and getting it to show up on screen. For one person to be smarter than the others, writers often make the rest of the room dumber.

But the whole flagship of geniuses thing was actually done in an episode. Wesley applying to the Academy and only one could make it. Seriously it was written like Starfleet Academy has a total class size of twenty per year.
These people want me to believe the drunk weirdo who followed Wesley in episode 2 was the only person who could apply in this uber strict super maxi academy. Give me a break.
Science Fiction is a genre where anything can happen. Just make sure what happens is enjoyable for yourself and your audience.
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by Winter »

One thing to keep in mind is TNG was always intended to be an episodic series. There would be some character arcs and ongoing stories, (most notable being Data's journey) but even then you could watch any of those stories in any order and not get lost. Just look at the Borg, THE biggest bad of TNG but are only focused on for 5 or 7 episodes and most of them are standalone stories that are only very loosely tied together.

With DS9 there was always an intent to make the show show more serialized so there would be more ongoing arcs for most of the cast. Also keep in mind that we didn't learn Bashir was an Augment until season 5 I think and they had every intention of just dropping that idea at first but Alexander Siddig, Bashir's actor (Whom I will remind everyone was against the idea to begin with) insisted on keeping that idea around because he didn't want to just drop it.

There are a number of issues with Wesley, the most notable is how he is inserted into the story and what he represents. One of the most popular TV Series of all time is Avatar: The Last Airbender and one of the things that has been praised the most in this series is how well written the main characters are with attention being mainly drawn to how they feel like real kids.

As many have pointed out, including our own Chuck, is that when it comes to writing kids one of two things are likely to happen, one they will be written like adults in a child's body or will be made out to be REALLY annoying in order to make them as "realistic as possible."

Avatar bypasses both these issues by having the characters act like kids but ones who are aware of the huge burden that has been put upon them. Aang likes to goof off and have fun, Sokka is full of himself, Katara is pushy and prone to anger, Zuko is inpatient and like Katara quick to anger. Yet Aang is also kind and wants to help others, Sokka is a natural leader, Katara is kind and puts others ahead of herself, and Zuko is an honorable young man who can be great if he could only breakaway from his abusive father.

Wesley, is the kid on the ship. He's often smarter then everyone around him, can get REALLY annoying and lacks any real maturity and doesn't really have much beyond "He really wants to be in Starfleet".

Really, Wesley didn't need to be a superhuman he just needed to be given more human moments with reminders that he is just a kid. He LOVES Star Fleet and wants to join it more then anything else and is existed just to be on the bridge of the Flag ship and meet the captain of said ship who was a friend of his father. But the show never focuses on this because it was more obsessed with his supposed "great potential" and Gene's obsession of the "Evolved Human" who doesn't have flaws and is perfect because we have, somehow, evolved past that point.

Really, the biggest problem with Wesley was that he was created and introduced in season 1 of TNG and while most of the rest of the cast we're able to grow beyond that... awful first season... Wesley never did. He went from annoying kid tag-along to forgettable kid tag-along. It wouldn't be until season 5 I think that Wesley would be given more depth but by then, the damage had been done and there was nothing that anyone could do to undo it.

Contrast this with Bashir who got out of the scrappy heap in DS9's second season just by focusing more on his human flaws and giving him a more likable personality. No superhero genetic mortification required.
User avatar
McAvoy
Captain
Posts: 3915
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:55 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by McAvoy »

I have thought how I would redo Wesley over the years and honestly the best way would have been just a smart kid. Nothing special past that and definitely would not have him saving the Enterprise.

In fact I would write him as an avatar for the audience. So he experiences the wonder of the Enterprise and space for the first time.

I would have also lightly played with the concept that Wesley is Picard's son. But make it vague and in the end not true. Would have been an interesting conversation for Trek fans.

I think him going to the Academy would have worked too. Four years but still have First Duty. Maybe leave Starfleet due to the Maquis but not actual join them.
I got nothing to say here.
User avatar
CharlesPhipps
Captain
Posts: 4956
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by CharlesPhipps »

McAvoy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:14 pm I have thought how I would redo Wesley over the years and honestly the best way would have been just a smart kid. Nothing special past that and definitely would not have him saving the Enterprise.

In fact I would write him as an avatar for the audience. So he experiences the wonder of the Enterprise and space for the first time.

I would have also lightly played with the concept that Wesley is Picard's son. But make it vague and in the end not true. Would have been an interesting conversation for Trek fans.

I think him going to the Academy would have worked too. Four years but still have First Duty. Maybe leave Starfleet due to the Maquis but not actual join them.
I mean, that's Jake Sisko and Wesley is absolutely a better character than Jake Sisko.

Absolutely incorporate the character into the plots and give him something that allows him to meaningful contribute.
User avatar
McAvoy
Captain
Posts: 3915
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:55 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: [TNG/DS9] Wesley Crusher should have had Bashir's plot

Post by McAvoy »

CharlesPhipps wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:22 pm
McAvoy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:14 pm I have thought how I would redo Wesley over the years and honestly the best way would have been just a smart kid. Nothing special past that and definitely would not have him saving the Enterprise.

In fact I would write him as an avatar for the audience. So he experiences the wonder of the Enterprise and space for the first time.

I would have also lightly played with the concept that Wesley is Picard's son. But make it vague and in the end not true. Would have been an interesting conversation for Trek fans.

I think him going to the Academy would have worked too. Four years but still have First Duty. Maybe leave Starfleet due to the Maquis but not actual join them.
I mean, that's Jake Sisko and Wesley is absolutely a better character than Jake Sisko.

Absolutely incorporate the character into the plots and give him something that allows him to meaningful contribute.
I know. That's the issue with my idea. Just a regular kid missing one of his parents and you end up with Jake Sisko.

Maybe they could still make him special but downplay it. Hint at it. Build up on it. Absolutely do not have him be like he was in the first two seasons.
I got nothing to say here.
Post Reply