Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

[Winter]

After Korrasami was made canon the series has really embraced the gay side of things with a Graphic Novel Trilogy that's all about Korra and Asami exploring their relationship, the Kyoshi novels have Kyoshi and Rangi and few LGBT characters in Avatar Legends: The Roleplaying Game.

That's expanded universe stuff which has always had a lot more free range than stuff that's actually put on screen. If we're giving credit for that then in the late 90's/early 00's Trek books you had one all about the First Contact helmsman (the one played by Damian Darhk from the Arrowverse) being gay, and another one that was basically officially published slashfic that involved a mirror universe version of Seven of Nine getting it on with the Intendent.

Even taking into account, that those stories are EU which I did

Now, whether this strike will continue in the upcoming films and shows is yet to be answered but when Avatar became the first show to have a Same Sex Couple in Western Animation aimed at kids the series didn't shy away from that and instead embraced it.

The fact remains that most of the content released after Korra has included more LGBT characters. To contrast this with Star Wars which has one of the biggest EU's ever made the series didn't include a lot of LGBT Representation even in Role-Playing games like The Old Republic series.

Korra dedicated an entire Graphic Novel Trilogy to exploring the relationship between Korra and Asami while over at Kyoshi the title character's relationship and romantic feelings for both Rangi and Yun was a big part of her character. And it's not always true that comics and novels will have as much free range as films or TV and one need look no further then Tomb Raider.

In the comics writers fought tooth and nail to have Lara and Sam end up together romantically with the most infamous example being a scene that had Lara and Sam kiss in a moment where Lara realized her feelings for Sam were romantic. And this scene was cut and replaced by a hug because Crystal Dynamics refused to let that happen and the likely return of Sam was once again had her replaced by Jonah in order to make sure that Lara wouldn't be made gay. And keep in mind Video Games have been a LOT more welcoming towards the LGBT with most Game of the Year Winners over the last 7 or so years all having LGBT leads or major supporting characters.

Baldur's Gate 3
Elden Ring
The Last of Us Part II
Overwatch
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
Dragon Age: Inquisition

All these games have you playing as a character who is or can be gay and or bi. In fact only 3 games over the last year have not included LGBT characters.

It Takes Two
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
God of War

The only other game might be the exception to this is The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and even that's debatable thanks to the inclusion of Vilia and the Vai outfit Link can wear which makes him look VERY feminine (and might I add really cute). Furthermore LGBT inclusion had gone up in TV in recent years in the United States with several shows being more open about including LGBT characters as either major secondary characters or lead characters and even during the 90's was pretty inclusive.

My point here is that while TV, Comics, Novels and Games can be more inclusive by and large that depends more on the people running the series more then anything. Star Trek has improved in the mainstream series and is doing a Hell of a lot better then series like Tomb Raider it still feels like it's behind compared to other series.

Again, the most inclusive show in Trek right now that has more then 2 LGBT characters is Discovery and even then the treatment of those characters is kinda iffy.

[Madner Kami]

and it was why she was homeless.

She was?

I mean I say she was homeless but she did have that pretty nice area of land she pretended was bullshit but like... all this land is yours in a Sci Fi utopia with no resource shortage? Sure it's not Picard's place, but damn this is way better than what I have. Much of this comes from me mocking how Raffi ACTS homeless... but lives quite well. Than again, that sums up Raffi in my head of a jerk who ACTS like she's a victim when she totally is the reason her life sucks. Even ignoring what Starfleet did to her.

Yeah. And goddamnit, I just realized she's got a guest-bedroom and bath... Geezus fucking christ. How can anyone consider that "living on the fringe" or "poor" or "ostracized"? Is this what affluenza looks like? Fits the character...

Again, the most inclusive show in Trek right now that has more then 2 LGBT characters is Discovery and even then the treatment of those characters is kinda iffy.

I really feel, that criticizing pre-2009 (argueably pre-Enterprise) Star Trek for a lack of LGBTQ-representation is misguided at best. It completely ignores the social and economic environment those shows were made in. Yes, you could get away with some shit on TV, but there were limits, especially if you wanted to syndicalize that show and a good part of your audience were children and teens.

[Nobody700]

and it was why she was homeless.

She was?

I mean I say she was homeless but she did have that pretty nice area of land she pretended was bullshit but like... all this land is yours in a Sci Fi utopia with no resource shortage? Sure it's not Picard's place, but damn this is way better than what I have. Much of this comes from me mocking how Raffi ACTS homeless... but lives quite well. Than again, that sums up Raffi in my head of a jerk who ACTS like she's a victim when she totally is the reason her life sucks. Even ignoring what Starfleet did to her.

Yeah. And goddamnit, I just realized she's got a guest-bedroom and bath... Geezus fucking christ. How can anyone consider that "living on the fringe" or "poor" or "ostracized"? Is this what affluenza looks like? Fits the character...

Again, the most inclusive show in Trek right now that has more then 2 LGBT characters is Discovery and even then the treatment of those characters is kinda iffy.

I really feel, that criticizing pre-2009 (argueably pre-Enterprise) Star Trek for a lack of LGBTQ-representation is misguided at best. It completely ignores the social and economic environment those shows were made in. Yes, you could get away with some shit on TV, but there were limits, especially if you wanted to syndicalize that show and a good part of your audience were children and teens.

It's why I don't mock TOS for how it treated black characters or women (mostly, some was just bad even for them, like how Uhura could NEVER come close to command even though she was fifth place for the ship, and hell going off that, Sulu was FOURTH and he also never commanded) but Enterprise I do mock for the "The captainship canidates are 500 white dudes and one white woman and one black guy". Sure the second captain was a woman, but that was season 4, and 100% to mock TOS's awful 'No women captains' rule.

Also Lower Decks main lead is LGBT, odd that doesn't get mentioned.

[hammerofglass]

... To contrast this with Star Wars which has one of the biggest EU's ever made the series didn't include a lot of LGBT Representation even in Role-Playing games like The Old Republic series.

On the topic of representation in The Old Republic I really want to know what happened there. Because in the base game they seem to have been under the impression that they can't even directly acknowledge gay or bi people exist (even with Kaliyo's exes it doesn't quite admit it) and then in the expansions suddenly gay and bi people exist including some of the companions. I don't know if they had different brand reps to answer to after the Disney buyout or what.

Plus, romanceable lesbian catgirl in the original game back in 2003.

[Winter]

... To contrast this with Star Wars which has one of the biggest EU's ever made the series didn't include a lot of LGBT Representation even in Role-Playing games like The Old Republic series.

On the topic of representation in The Old Republic I really want to know what happened there. Because in the base game they seem to have been under the impression that they can't even directly acknowledge gay or bi people exist (even with Kaliyo's exes it doesn't quite admit it) and then in the expansions suddenly gay and bi people exist including some of the companions. I don't know if they had different brand reps to answer to after the Disney buyout or what.

Plus, romanceable lesbian catgirl in the original game back in 2003.

Juhani is only slightly a romantic option. By that I mean she can be romanced but that stops after the two of you confess your feelings for one another. I don't think she even gets a closing romance scene at the end of the game like Carth and Bastila.

As for TOR as Chuck pointed out they kinda overcompensated for including same-sex romance options with it being a bit to in your face and the characters being mostly defined by their sexuality. Later expansions started to give players more options like Kira and Jaesa with the two coming to realize they're bisexual and only telling the female PC their feelings which was handled a lot better.

But for the most part it's still kinda mixed in how it was handled and the bar is still set pretty low. But at least they have a bar.

[Nobody700]

But yeah back on Star Trek, anyone remember the gay episode of TNG?

Even Frakes at the time said the actor should have been a man. Would have been a rather unique trans episode... still a bad ep but hey, a really powerful statement. Add in some better chemistry and the episode would have been a great one.

[Madner Kami]

But yeah back on Star Trek, anyone remember the gay episode of TNG?

"The Outcast" you mean? I feel they could've gotten away with an androgynous actor or actress there, but didn't go as far as they could've. Jaye Davidson would easily pass for example, without sticking too much out of the crowd. At least the show runners were smart enough to use a single-sex cast for the alien race (in this case all-female), rather than killing their own premise entirely.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

We did not. =/ That bugged me especially because it served no narrative function I could see.

The break-up or the relationship?

The breakup.

[Nealithi]

But yeah back on Star Trek, anyone remember the gay episode of TNG?

"The Outcast" you mean? I feel they could've gotten away with an androgynous actor or actress there, but didn't go as far as they could've. Jaye Davidson would easily pass for example, without sticking too much out of the crowd. At least the show runners were smart enough to use a single-sex cast for the alien race (in this case all-female), rather than killing their own premise entirely.

Sorry for jumping into this. Not a comment on inclusiveness.
But wouldn't a single gender species basically need to be all female, as we define it, anyway?

[hammerofglass]

But yeah back on Star Trek, anyone remember the gay episode of TNG?

"The Outcast" you mean? I feel they could've gotten away with an androgynous actor or actress there, but didn't go as far as they could've. Jaye Davidson would easily pass for example, without sticking too much out of the crowd. At least the show runners were smart enough to use a single-sex cast for the alien race (in this case all-female), rather than killing their own premise entirely.

Sorry for jumping into this. Not a comment on inclusiveness.
But wouldn't a single gender species basically need to be all female, as we define it, anyway?

Single sex would be. All the ones we know of are all female, anyway. The whole point of the episode is they actually aren't single gender.