Hamas Attacks Israel

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

They ethnic cleansed the village of Ein Samia. https://www.newarab.com/features/israel ... nk-village

[phantom000]

They ethnic cleansed the village of Ein Samia. https://www.newarab.com/features/israel ... nk-village

You can steal all you want, as long as you don't steal from a Jew.

That's what we're back to...

[Nobody700]

So I debated posting this or not, and I decided... if I'm gonna be damned, I'm gonna be damned for who I am.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-07-11/

I'm gonna discuss why I personally think we didn't abandon Israel. Now, I admit, a lot of this is not based on actual evidence just from what I observed beyond this conflict and in here, so I apologize this isn't the best case and I can't cite it. If you choose to ignore it on that basis, I more than understand. If you agree with my premise but find my points dubious, that is also more than fair. I am not an expert nor shall I pretend to be one. I can't say I am and I won't pretend to be one here. I will however, fire these three things I will NOT debate on, and if you are angered by that, sorry, I just think you're wrong.

1. What Israel is doing is right. If you debate me on this, you're a horrible person, the IDF should have been legally declared an occupying army based on terror on the levels of Russia in Ukraine. I do not see the difference between them at ALL after all the footage I have seen.
2. 'Genocide Joe'. You're an idiot and have no idea how genocides actually operate. I admit, at the HEAT of things, it's frustrating to not see him do more, and I'll agree on you on that, but calling him the guy in charge of this just suggests you think Israel bows to our will, which they DON'T.
3. That Hamas is a good group. No, the IDF are to blame for every evil, and Hamas is also to blame. The only people who care less for the lives of people in Palestine than the IDF, are Hamas, and Bibi at number 1.

Now, on to what Israel has done. Israel was VERY quickly attacked at the inception of its birth, and has had a very negative rep with the middle east for the crime of existing. Were the grievances at the time by Arab and Muslim people justified by Israel being created? I won't lie and say no, but that should have been talked with. These are governments that hate their people almost as much as they hate the west, and to them, JEWS and GAYS are the wests 'worst traits'. So creating a homeland for the victims of the Holocaust in a HOTLY debated region was never going to go well with them, and Israel had the right to defend itself. The main problem, was this belief fostered hard with the people in the area. Being backed by America, who had thanks to WWII finally become the biggest worldpower in the world, Israel had a HUGE advantage. The Soviets weren't backing most of the invading nations so Israel easily won thanks to America. After this, Israel became our biggest allies in the middle east (this is before we all agreed Saudi Arabia was cool cause they gave us oil and while Israel is pretty evil, Saudi Arabia is CARTOON levels evil so lets ignore them mostly for now) because most of those nations don't like us on principal. Thankfully, Reagan and Bush would GIVE them a reason to hate us that were more than justified, but let's table that discussion for a convo not here. After that, decades pass.

Things got worse for the non Israeli people of Israel, and it didn't matter if they were jews. Zionism was on the rise in Israel, and while many elections happened to fight it, Bibi finally won. Considered RATHER far right, even by far right standards, Bibi had two desires in life. Genocide, and stealing money from the poor. Now the first one was RATHER slow and stopped a lot and not to his liking, so he tried hard to increase stealing land from Gaza as much as he could. The second, he LOVED, but that bit him on the ass hard. Under investigation, Bibi was cooked, till suddenly he heard from American Intelligence that hey, some guys planning bad things, stop it. Now I can't say I was there so I can't say for definitive, but he ignored them because this was news he heard weekly and this was the one time it was true, he heard them but didn't imagine HOW bad... or he did. He ignored them... cause this is what he wanted. Whatever the reason, Bibi didn't stop October Seven... and the blood of the victims are on his hands just as much as the killers. Even worse, if supposed... the IDF may have gunned down civilians in the attempt to stop said massacre.

What happened in October 7, despite all the crimes of the IDF, the government, and the people who voted this in, can NEVER be blamed on those killed. The IDF wanting to make Hamas pay is more than understandable. But Bibi heard of a lil thing called Bush's invasion of the middle east, and said 'Nice try, but THIS is how you WIPE OUT CIVIES' and began a scorched earth plan that was beyond evil. Thousands were moved out and than when told to leave a place, were BLOWN UP, aid from international groups was DESTROYED and aid workers KILLED by IDF, and torture of children became the goal of the IDF. The IDF taping themselves gleefully having fun with this and celebrating is the reason these men will burn in hell. Hamas, not ones to be forgotten, began attacking civilians in Gaza as well and faking them as IDF attacks, which confused me cause the IDF didn't need help from them on that front. My guess is, again, while the IDF hated the people of Gaza more, Hamas didn't want to lose that silver medal. All the while, Bibi and his cabinet purged anyone who was against the war and screamed anti semitic to any who called this attack evil. As a man who's wife is jewish and her family are strongly jewish... none of them had supported Bibi the day they saw how bad Gaza was FLATTENED. Even my wife, the kindest woman I know, hoped Israel would burn HAMAS alive after the October 7 attack... and than when she saw kids blown apart by the IDF, changed to Hamas and Bibi.

Many nations across the world WILDLY condemned Israel... except one major one. US. This is because Israel is our biggest ally... and comes the REAL controversial part. Why didn't we condemn Israel? Did we APPROVE of them? Were our leaders pro this? Sadly... many are. Some, more moderate than monsters, pointed out that the rest of the world was ignoring Hamas and while this was weak, had some merit. Many nations had plans to stop the fighting but none really had any beyond '2 state solution' which WOULDN'T stop this. What would, is getting the people of Israel to never do this again, and prevent Hamas attacking again. This is NOT an easy solution, but many nations wanted the easy one. In comes, the US president of America, Biden. Many have called him Genocide Joe for not condemning Israel and even giving them weapons during this event. Those who call him genocide Joe, russian trolls or genuine leftists who ACTUALLY care about the people in Gaza (thus the people I more forgive) did not understand... America had Trump before Biden. Trump, in one of his biggest smart moves... made enemies of ALL OUR ALLIES... except Israel.

Trump went out of his way to PISS OFF dozens of nations, and groups who helped us. Abandoning everyone, and letting the worst of the worst swoop in. Biden did enough to reunite some of our alliances and while this worked for many, others refused because we did it at all. Abandoning Israel would have been a sign we would abandon any of our allies, even an unpopular hated one. Perhaps it would be the right move to abandon them... if their wasn't someone who ALWAYS jumped in after we did. Enter, Russia. People forget Russia when it comes to this debate, who had become the biggest ally to most middle east conflicts against America. While Russia can't win a war in Ukraine to save Putin's asshole, aka his face, Russia CAN freely support and help others bring DEATH to the winds. Russia has made it clear they condemn any and all groups who work with America... till Trump abandoned them, than suddenly Russia swoops in and acts like they're besties. Biden leaving Israel would just have Bibi run to the feet of Putin.

Biden can and should have done more for Israel, but efforts were made. Aid flown in, private discussions that Bibi apparently hated and screamed about in public, wishes of Israel for Trump to win because he freely wants Israel to flatten Gaza, and while Biden should not have accepted those weapon deals, many of those deals come for deals for income payment to our own country and weapons to Ukraine and others who need it. The devil is in the details, and while headlines only declared 'Biden gives Israel 3 trillion dollars to blow up Gaza more', the reality is this is equipment we MUST give them in this event... or we break away from Israel. It's not good. It's not nice. I won't even pretend I'd make that choice, but between stopping the conflict in the harsh painful way that ends lives now... or abandon Israel so it gets WORSE... that is NOT an option. Israel has plenty enough weapons to flatten Gaza, and only stopped cause we made it clear multiple times that while they have pushed the line, their IS a final line. We allowed Israel to go too far, but full on destruction of the people and the city is the one step they'd make that would finally cause us to abandon them. While Bibi may prefer Russia... he isn't the stupidest man in Israel, just the most evil. He knows Russia doesn't CARE about Israel being alive, and just wants Israel as an enemy against America. Bibi is forced to accept the demands of the US that he can somehow weasel his way to the top, and thus, the deal to end the war can't be one that just says 'Two state solution so it's a one sided war instead of a one sided massacre' or 'US leaves Israel so Russia can pat them on the back when they stomp on the skulls of children'.

This does leave the people of Gaza as those who suffer the most, and to them, my heart bleeds. I made it no secret that Israel is in the wrong here. But the situation is not black and white here. Many of the nations around Gaza do NOT care for it being alive... because they have refused any and all real aid. Most nations abroad also, while do care, not enough to also stop Israel. America, while in sad support of Israel more than we should, is the one country holding back Bibi. It's not enough. That I agree. But we are. This is the pains of being the most powerful nation on Earth. You aren't the good guy in the situation. But you can try to be the best you can, and setting up a stronger in Gaza that isn't US troops or Israeli soldiers is one. Saudi Arabia has promised to bring in soldiers to defend Gaza from the IDF, and while I fear for the people there... perhaps this gives them time to escape the IDF from another massacre.

Another thing to not forget, are those held hostage by Hamas. These people were used as tools and were killed and tortured... and yet despite that, most of them who survived were vocal in being AGAINST the IDF. Because this isn't a Israeli vs Palestinians situation. It's IDF and Hamas fighting each other on the backs of Palestinians, with the israeli citizens being hit by the shells of both. Again, I am no expert, I can't go over every engagement, every crime of the IDF, every AID worker killed by the IDF or Hamas who tried to feed and heal people, the stories of those who escaped or stayed, I just can't. But the situation is no longer hopeless... except for one.

If Trump wins. He will RIP up this deal and ease off any and all pressure on Bibi... and give him a gun to execute the children faster. Those of our allies across the seas will than be told to die as Trump places America next to Russia... and sits on their laps in the hope they can be like Papa Putin. Remember that in this election, and tell those you know. America was made WEAKER because of Trump in every way. Financially, military, morally, and internationally. All because of the orders of a sick monster even worse than Bibi who has not been half as successful because America is aiding in Ukraine. Again, you aren't the good guy when you're the most powerful nation on Earth... but by god, better the ones who regret their deeds and broken promises than the one who smiles as he holds the chain and tells you to march and die... because Trump, Bibi, and Putin all wish to be that man with the chain, and by 2030... one of them, or someone FAR worse in their camp, will hold that chain if the 2024 election is lost to Trump.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

The creation of Israel was an immoral occupation and the creation of an apartheid state.

[Mindworm]

So I debated posting this or not, and I decided... if I'm gonna be damned, I'm gonna be damned for who I am.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-07-11/

I'm gonna discuss why I personally think we didn't abandon Israel. Now, I admit, a lot of this is not based on actual evidence just from what I observed beyond this conflict and in here, so I apologize this isn't the best case and I can't cite it. If you choose to ignore it on that basis, I more than understand. If you agree with my premise but find my points dubious, that is also more than fair. I am not an expert nor shall I pretend to be one. I can't say I am and I won't pretend to be one here. I will however, fire these three things I will NOT debate on, and if you are angered by that, sorry, I just think you're wrong.

1. What Israel is doing is right. If you debate me on this, you're a horrible person, the IDF should have been legally declared an occupying army based on terror on the levels of Russia in Ukraine. I do not see the difference between them at ALL after all the footage I have seen.
2. 'Genocide Joe'. You're an idiot and have no idea how genocides actually operate. I admit, at the HEAT of things, it's frustrating to not see him do more, and I'll agree on you on that, but calling him the guy in charge of this just suggests you think Israel bows to our will, which they DON'T.
3. That Hamas is a good group. No, the IDF are to blame for every evil, and Hamas is also to blame. The only people who care less for the lives of people in Palestine than the IDF, are Hamas, and Bibi at number 1.

Now, on to what Israel has done. Israel was VERY quickly attacked at the inception of its birth, and has had a very negative rep with the middle east for the crime of existing. Were the grievances at the time by Arab and Muslim people justified by Israel being created? I won't lie and say no, but that should have been talked with. These are governments that hate their people almost as much as they hate the west, and to them, JEWS and GAYS are the wests 'worst traits'. So creating a homeland for the victims of the Holocaust in a HOTLY debated region was never going to go well with them, and Israel had the right to defend itself. The main problem, was this belief fostered hard with the people in the area. Being backed by America, who had thanks to WWII finally become the biggest worldpower in the world, Israel had a HUGE advantage. The Soviets weren't backing most of the invading nations so Israel easily won thanks to America. After this, Israel became our biggest allies in the middle east (this is before we all agreed Saudi Arabia was cool cause they gave us oil and while Israel is pretty evil, Saudi Arabia is CARTOON levels evil so lets ignore them mostly for now) because most of those nations don't like us on principal. Thankfully, Reagan and Bush would GIVE them a reason to hate us that were more than justified, but let's table that discussion for a convo not here. After that, decades pass.

Things got worse for the non Israeli people of Israel, and it didn't matter if they were jews. Zionism was on the rise in Israel, and while many elections happened to fight it, Bibi finally won. Considered RATHER far right, even by far right standards, Bibi had two desires in life. Genocide, and stealing money from the poor. Now the first one was RATHER slow and stopped a lot and not to his liking, so he tried hard to increase stealing land from Gaza as much as he could. The second, he LOVED, but that bit him on the ass hard. Under investigation, Bibi was cooked, till suddenly he heard from American Intelligence that hey, some guys planning bad things, stop it. Now I can't say I was there so I can't say for definitive, but he ignored them because this was news he heard weekly and this was the one time it was true, he heard them but didn't imagine HOW bad... or he did. He ignored them... cause this is what he wanted. Whatever the reason, Bibi didn't stop October Seven... and the blood of the victims are on his hands just as much as the killers. Even worse, if supposed... the IDF may have gunned down civilians in the attempt to stop said massacre.

What happened in October 7, despite all the crimes of the IDF, the government, and the people who voted this in, can NEVER be blamed on those killed. The IDF wanting to make Hamas pay is more than understandable. But Bibi heard of a lil thing called Bush's invasion of the middle east, and said 'Nice try, but THIS is how you WIPE OUT CIVIES' and began a scorched earth plan that was beyond evil. Thousands were moved out and than when told to leave a place, were BLOWN UP, aid from international groups was DESTROYED and aid workers KILLED by IDF, and torture of children became the goal of the IDF. The IDF taping themselves gleefully having fun with this and celebrating is the reason these men will burn in hell. Hamas, not ones to be forgotten, began attacking civilians in Gaza as well and faking them as IDF attacks, which confused me cause the IDF didn't need help from them on that front. My guess is, again, while the IDF hated the people of Gaza more, Hamas didn't want to lose that silver medal. All the while, Bibi and his cabinet purged anyone who was against the war and screamed anti semitic to any who called this attack evil. As a man who's wife is jewish and her family are strongly jewish... none of them had supported Bibi the day they saw how bad Gaza was FLATTENED. Even my wife, the kindest woman I know, hoped Israel would burn HAMAS alive after the October 7 attack... and than when she saw kids blown apart by the IDF, changed to Hamas and Bibi.

Many nations across the world WILDLY condemned Israel... except one major one. US. This is because Israel is our biggest ally... and comes the REAL controversial part. Why didn't we condemn Israel? Did we APPROVE of them? Were our leaders pro this? Sadly... many are. Some, more moderate than monsters, pointed out that the rest of the world was ignoring Hamas and while this was weak, had some merit. Many nations had plans to stop the fighting but none really had any beyond '2 state solution' which WOULDN'T stop this. What would, is getting the people of Israel to never do this again, and prevent Hamas attacking again. This is NOT an easy solution, but many nations wanted the easy one. In comes, the US president of America, Biden. Many have called him Genocide Joe for not condemning Israel and even giving them weapons during this event. Those who call him genocide Joe, russian trolls or genuine leftists who ACTUALLY care about the people in Gaza (thus the people I more forgive) did not understand... America had Trump before Biden. Trump, in one of his biggest smart moves... made enemies of ALL OUR ALLIES... except Israel.

Trump went out of his way to PISS OFF dozens of nations, and groups who helped us. Abandoning everyone, and letting the worst of the worst swoop in. Biden did enough to reunite some of our alliances and while this worked for many, others refused because we did it at all. Abandoning Israel would have been a sign we would abandon any of our allies, even an unpopular hated one. Perhaps it would be the right move to abandon them... if their wasn't someone who ALWAYS jumped in after we did. Enter, Russia. People forget Russia when it comes to this debate, who had become the biggest ally to most middle east conflicts against America. While Russia can't win a war in Ukraine to save Putin's asshole, aka his face, Russia CAN freely support and help others bring DEATH to the winds. Russia has made it clear they condemn any and all groups who work with America... till Trump abandoned them, than suddenly Russia swoops in and acts like they're besties. Biden leaving Israel would just have Bibi run to the feet of Putin.

Biden can and should have done more for Israel, but efforts were made. Aid flown in, private discussions that Bibi apparently hated and screamed about in public, wishes of Israel for Trump to win because he freely wants Israel to flatten Gaza, and while Biden should not have accepted those weapon deals, many of those deals come for deals for income payment to our own country and weapons to Ukraine and others who need it. The devil is in the details, and while headlines only declared 'Biden gives Israel 3 trillion dollars to blow up Gaza more', the reality is this is equipment we MUST give them in this event... or we break away from Israel. It's not good. It's not nice. I won't even pretend I'd make that choice, but between stopping the conflict in the harsh painful way that ends lives now... or abandon Israel so it gets WORSE... that is NOT an option. Israel has plenty enough weapons to flatten Gaza, and only stopped cause we made it clear multiple times that while they have pushed the line, their IS a final line. We allowed Israel to go too far, but full on destruction of the people and the city is the one step they'd make that would finally cause us to abandon them. While Bibi may prefer Russia... he isn't the stupidest man in Israel, just the most evil. He knows Russia doesn't CARE about Israel being alive, and just wants Israel as an enemy against America. Bibi is forced to accept the demands of the US that he can somehow weasel his way to the top, and thus, the deal to end the war can't be one that just says 'Two state solution so it's a one sided war instead of a one sided massacre' or 'US leaves Israel so Russia can pat them on the back when they stomp on the skulls of children'.

This does leave the people of Gaza as those who suffer the most, and to them, my heart bleeds. I made it no secret that Israel is in the wrong here. But the situation is not black and white here. Many of the nations around Gaza do NOT care for it being alive... because they have refused any and all real aid. Most nations abroad also, while do care, not enough to also stop Israel. America, while in sad support of Israel more than we should, is the one country holding back Bibi. It's not enough. That I agree. But we are. This is the pains of being the most powerful nation on Earth. You aren't the good guy in the situation. But you can try to be the best you can, and setting up a stronger in Gaza that isn't US troops or Israeli soldiers is one. Saudi Arabia has promised to bring in soldiers to defend Gaza from the IDF, and while I fear for the people there... perhaps this gives them time to escape the IDF from another massacre.

Another thing to not forget, are those held hostage by Hamas. These people were used as tools and were killed and tortured... and yet despite that, most of them who survived were vocal in being AGAINST the IDF. Because this isn't a Israeli vs Palestinians situation. It's IDF and Hamas fighting each other on the backs of Palestinians, with the israeli citizens being hit by the shells of both. Again, I am no expert, I can't go over every engagement, every crime of the IDF, every AID worker killed by the IDF or Hamas who tried to feed and heal people, the stories of those who escaped or stayed, I just can't. But the situation is no longer hopeless... except for one.

If Trump wins. He will RIP up this deal and ease off any and all pressure on Bibi... and give him a gun to execute the children faster. Those of our allies across the seas will than be told to die as Trump places America next to Russia... and sits on their laps in the hope they can be like Papa Putin. Remember that in this election, and tell those you know. America was made WEAKER because of Trump in every way. Financially, military, morally, and internationally. All because of the orders of a sick monster even worse than Bibi who has not been half as successful because America is aiding in Ukraine. Again, you aren't the good guy when you're the most powerful nation on Earth... but by god, better the ones who regret their deeds and broken promises than the one who smiles as he holds the chain and tells you to march and die... because Trump, Bibi, and Putin all wish to be that man with the chain, and by 2030... one of them, or someone FAR worse in their camp, will hold that chain if the 2024 election is lost to Trump.

Israel is committing genocide, from the people, places, institutions and groups they are targeting, it is clear now that those in control of the state of Israel has decided that it is time to ensure that the Palestinian people have no way to continue to exist, either in Gaza or the West Bank. For this reason unless Bibi and his far-right cabal are stopped now and stopped hard, the flag of Israel the state of Israel and the institutions of Israel will have the same cachet in thirty years time as Nazi Germany will do now.

And the most ironic thing is that the Palestinians are descended from the Jews who stated in Roman Iudaea after the second temple revolt. In Yhwhist terms they have as much right to the land (not that religious mythology should ever be a basis for land rights) as the Israelis do.

[phantom000]

And the most ironic thing is that the Palestinians are descended from the Jews who stated in Roman Iudaea after the second temple revolt. In Yhwhist terms they have as much right to the land (not that religious mythology should ever be a basis for land rights) as the Israelis do.

As a white protestant American I can't really complain when someone decides they want to move to a completely different part of the world so they can build a new home in someone else's backyard. But when you tell the people who were already living there they have to leave because you don't want them as neighbors that is when you have crossed a line and I don't care if you're jewish or christian, American or Israeli it's fascism all over again. What is happening in Gaza and the west bank is just like what happened to Native Americans which only makes it worse!

When I was a kid the Indian massacres and the trail of tears were supposed to be the dark chapter of US history; things that never should have happened and only did because there wasn't someone there to stop us. Now that someone else is doing the same thing, instead of trying to stop them Uncle Sam is cheering them on.

It makes me sick just to think about it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Remember when we were arguing about whether Israel had bombed a hospital, and now they bomb hospitals, schools, refugee camps, etc., even destroy a water supply on video while bragging about it, and we're just supposed to take that in stride because it's normalized?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

IDF soldiers are resisting arrest because they want to keep raping prisoners. Some politicians are standing behind the pro-rape soldiers.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Update: Israel is now ON THE BRINK OF CIVIL WAR because the soldiers want to keep raping prisoners

[MightyDavidson]

Update: Israel is now ON THE BRINK OF CIVIL WAR because the soldiers want to keep raping prisoners

Well I'd not wish civil war on any nation. That being said, if that gets rid of Bibi and his goons that can only be a good thing.