The Sisko - The Commander

[McAvoy]

So I fell upon a YouTube channel of Unlimited Lives who does a interesting version of SFDebris reviews. Though in his case, he does them in order. His humor in the credits isnt for me but whatever.

Anyway he brought up a point that made me think. So in the pilot episode, Ben Sisko was considering this as a temporary assignment. But also Starfleet obviously didn't consider the station that important to put a captain there either.

But then the wormhole was discovered and the station starts to become more important. Maybe the scope of it all doesn't register with Starfleet, because Sisko doesn't get promoted until end of Season 3. A full year after the destruction of the Odyssey and the first contact with the Dominion. Now DS9 becomes supremely important. At any point, Starfleet would have been within their rights and reason to put a captain there over Sisko.

But they didn't. Now the obvious answer is that shakey at the time, position Sisko was in as the Emmisary for the Prophets which would be instrumental in getting Bajor into the Federation.

But Sisko must have had a background to put there at DS9 to begin with even before the Wormhole. In that he woukd be there to help Bajor eventually get into the Federation. So he must have the sort of background to do that.

So, I guess you could say his days with the Defiant, the design and building it must have impressed the higher ups. Perhaps his time with Cudzon Dax had a longer lasting legacy than just being drinking buddies with Dax.

The whole Emmisary thing was early enough though I think that of Sisko was replaced let's say after Season 2, it shouldn't have been that big deal.

[CharlesPhipps]

So I fell upon a YouTube channel of Unlimited Lives who does a interesting version of SFDebris reviews. Though in his case, he does them in order. His humor in the credits isnt for me but whatever.

Anyway he brought up a point that made me think. So in the pilot episode, Ben Sisko was considering this as a temporary assignment. But also Starfleet obviously didn't consider the station that important to put a captain there either.

But then the wormhole was discovered and the station starts to become more important. Maybe the scope of it all doesn't register with Starfleet, because Sisko doesn't get promoted until end of Season 3. A full year after the destruction of the Odyssey and the first contact with the Dominion. Now DS9 becomes supremely important. At any point, Starfleet would have been within their rights and reason to put a captain there over Sisko.

But they didn't. Now the obvious answer is that shakey at the time, position Sisko was in as the Emmisary for the Prophets which would be instrumental in getting Bajor into the Federation.

But Sisko must have had a background to put there at DS9 to begin with even before the Wormhole. In that he woukd be there to help Bajor eventually get into the Federation. So he must have the sort of background to do that.

So, I guess you could say his days with the Defiant, the design and building it must have impressed the higher ups. Perhaps his time with Cudzon Dax had a longer lasting legacy than just being drinking buddies with Dax.

The whole Emmisary thing was early enough though I think that of Sisko was replaced let's say after Season 2, it shouldn't have been that big deal.

While you can blame writing and Doylist elements for some of this, I don't think it's meant to be nearly as unbelievable as it's being presented here.

My view on this is:

1. Sisko is assigned what is meant to be a low-effort assignment of supervising the station (Commanders usually command stations instead of Captains according to Starfleet) and supervise Bajor joining the Federation. It's not MEANT to be a particularly dangerous assignment as Starfleet assumes everything is in the bag.

2. Federation arrogance assumes that the Bajorans will want to join the Federation. They have severely underestimated the social unrest and political complexities on the planet even without the fact that Gul Dukat wants to retake Bajor against the agreement that had been made with the Cardassian government.

3. This is important, no one thinks that Sisko is INCOMPETENT or that the work on Bajor isn't important. It's just boring as far as Starfleet glamorizes ship command over stationary assignments. No one thinks he can't do the job or that he wasn't an up and coming officer before the Borg attack. So the important jobs he gets throughout Season 1 and 2 are still within the parts of a station commander.

4. Bureaucracy means that his promotion took some time when it became clear just how much he was doing for the federation with the biggest impediment probably that you don't put a Captain in charge of a space station.

In other words, I think a lot of the problem was with the fandom who took the idea of his being a Commander as an insult to Sisko versus remembering that Spock was a Commander for most of his career.

[McAvoy]

So I fell upon a YouTube channel of Unlimited Lives who does a interesting version of SFDebris reviews. Though in his case, he does them in order. His humor in the credits isnt for me but whatever.

Anyway he brought up a point that made me think. So in the pilot episode, Ben Sisko was considering this as a temporary assignment. But also Starfleet obviously didn't consider the station that important to put a captain there either.

But then the wormhole was discovered and the station starts to become more important. Maybe the scope of it all doesn't register with Starfleet, because Sisko doesn't get promoted until end of Season 3. A full year after the destruction of the Odyssey and the first contact with the Dominion. Now DS9 becomes supremely important. At any point, Starfleet would have been within their rights and reason to put a captain there over Sisko.

But they didn't. Now the obvious answer is that shakey at the time, position Sisko was in as the Emmisary for the Prophets which would be instrumental in getting Bajor into the Federation.

But Sisko must have had a background to put there at DS9 to begin with even before the Wormhole. In that he woukd be there to help Bajor eventually get into the Federation. So he must have the sort of background to do that.

So, I guess you could say his days with the Defiant, the design and building it must have impressed the higher ups. Perhaps his time with Cudzon Dax had a longer lasting legacy than just being drinking buddies with Dax.

The whole Emmisary thing was early enough though I think that of Sisko was replaced let's say after Season 2, it shouldn't have been that big deal.

While you can blame writing and Doylist elements for some of this, I don't think it's meant to be nearly as unbelievable as it's being presented here.

My view on this is:

1. Sisko is assigned what is meant to be a low-effort assignment of supervising the station (Commanders usually command stations instead of Captains according to Starfleet) and supervise Bajor joining the Federation. It's not MEANT to be a particularly dangerous assignment as Starfleet assumes everything is in the bag.

2. Federation arrogance assumes that the Bajorans will want to join the Federation. They have severely underestimated the social unrest and political complexities on the planet even without the fact that Gul Dukat wants to retake Bajor against the agreement that had been made with the Cardassian government.

3. This is important, no one thinks that Sisko is INCOMPETENT or that the work on Bajor isn't important. It's just boring as far as Starfleet glamorizes ship command over stationary assignments. No one thinks he can't do the job or that he wasn't an up and coming officer before the Borg attack. So the important jobs he gets throughout Season 1 and 2 are still within the parts of a station commander.

4. Bureaucracy means that his promotion took some time when it became clear just how much he was doing for the federation with the biggest impediment probably that you don't put a Captain in charge of a space station.

In other words, I think a lot of the problem was with the fandom who took the idea of his being a Commander as an insult to Sisko versus remembering that Spock was a Commander for most of his career.

Well assuming he was a relatively new Lt. Commander in Wolf 359. Let's say he has been at that rank for less than two years, then him being Commander by Emmisary makes sense in itself too. Then three years after that to make Captain. This is actually entirely believable in terms of how rank is actually made. So there is that.

I agree. No one has suggested he was not up for the job. There is some connecting the dots in that he was a effective leader or supervisor during his time working on the Defiant. He obviously had pull within Starfleet to get the Defiant.

My bet he rode a desk for a bit in between his stint with the Defiant after the ship mothballed and getting assigned to DS9. I am willing to bet he was effective in whatever he was doing there as well, logistics sounds about right.

If Starfleet operated their ranks like the US Navy then he most likely got promoted the first time he was up for promotion. In IRL, you really do have to do a song and a dance to get promoted. Lots of paperwork involved. Many times you don't make it rank the first time. Usually held for the truly promising prospects or the Golden Child.

Starfleet most likely felt Sisko was the right man for the job and the rank didn't matter as it will come soon too.

Sisko probably could have been an Admiral too if he didn't do some God stuff after the end of DS9. Whether he accepted it or not, is up to debate.

[Nealithi]

Recently watched the review of the Die is Cast again. Bashir reminding Sisko to not yell at admirals.
"I was just explaining my point, loudly."

Just a thought.

[hammerofglass]

By the end of the series he's functionally Supreme Commander of three miltaries while officially still a Captain. Yelling at Admirals worked pretty well for him.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think also part of it was fan issues. Basically, fans annoyed Sisko wasn't as highly ranked as other captains being a comment on his character or possibly position as the first black lead.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It really doesn't seem all that different from a commander or lower captaining a ship while the captain is gone. DS9 wasn't a situation that required a captain, as Charles was saying, because the end path of Bajor's liberation was already determined. Sisko was a Lt. Commander when he was nominated for the Commander position at DS9. Likewise a Lt. Commander is not unlikely to command a ship for any given mission or task. Decisions outside of the mission are held for the captain, though a commander would probably have more experience conferring with admirals outside of the mission parameters.

Also, Sisko had been on Mars in order to settle down after the events of Wolf 359. That program itself slowed down, so this was an understandable reassignment just from an administrative perspective on how to properly handle Sisko's situation.

[Nobody700]

For me it made sense. Bajor was minor to the Federation but they did want someone skilled and good at the job and it's shown that Sisko probably would have been Captain had Wolf 359 never happened. After the wormhole made Bajor a major deal, Sisko stayed on for two reasons. He was Emissary, and he WAS good at the job. While DS9 wasn't shy in showing how the Federation plays politics, the Federation is shown to be competent and Starfleet knew Sisko as good at the job. The fact Sisko skirted some rules... like firing a federation security chief off screen cause Odo is a lil bitch or how he does intimidate others may be what is needed to make Bajor join the Federation.

Also yes, I DO like Odo a lot, but he can be a little bitch about security. I blame the founder in him.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

For me it made sense. Bajor was minor to the Federation but they did want someone skilled and good at the job and it's shown that Sisko probably would have been Captain had Wolf 359 never happened. After the wormhole made Bajor a major deal, Sisko stayed on for two reasons. He was Emissary, and he WAS good at the job. While DS9 wasn't shy in showing how the Federation plays politics, the Federation is shown to be competent and Starfleet knew Sisko as good at the job. The fact Sisko skirted some rules... like firing a federation security chief off screen cause Odo is a lil bitch or how he does intimidate others may be what is needed to make Bajor join the Federation.

Also yes, I DO like Odo a lot, but he can be a little bitch about security. I blame the founder in him.

When was it established that Sisko would have been captain if not for wolf 359?

And I do doubt the federation went so far as to embrace or promote Sisko’s more domineering nature.

[CharlesPhipps]

When was it established that Sisko would have been captain if not for wolf 359?

And I do doubt the federation went so far as to embrace or promote Sisko’s more domineering nature.

Captains are allowed to be domineering and expected to stand up against godlike aliens to Klingon battlemasters. But I don't think Sisko was derailed in his career, he was a Lieutenant Commander promoted to Commander for a retirement-esque post.

But that was on Sisko and Picard said that he was a fool for throwing away his career.