The Sisko - The Commander

[Nobody700]

For me it made sense. Bajor was minor to the Federation but they did want someone skilled and good at the job and it's shown that Sisko probably would have been Captain had Wolf 359 never happened. After the wormhole made Bajor a major deal, Sisko stayed on for two reasons. He was Emissary, and he WAS good at the job. While DS9 wasn't shy in showing how the Federation plays politics, the Federation is shown to be competent and Starfleet knew Sisko as good at the job. The fact Sisko skirted some rules... like firing a federation security chief off screen cause Odo is a lil bitch or how he does intimidate others may be what is needed to make Bajor join the Federation.

Also yes, I DO like Odo a lot, but he can be a little bitch about security. I blame the founder in him.

When was it established that Sisko would have been captain if not for wolf 359?

And I do doubt the federation went so far as to embrace or promote Sisko’s more domineering nature.

Given his intelligence, courage, peoples skill, ability to handle crisies, and the fact he was liked and knew Admiral Layton very well, I gathered he was gonna be a Captain based on nothing but who he was as a person. Given he was first mate on a ship, it is likely he would have been Captain of another ship in 5 years given what kind of guy Sisko is. Unlike Riker, Sisko doesn't seem to have a hangup on being a Captain for years.

Given he had to handle the Cardassians and whatever came from the wormhole, you needed someone TOUGH, and not a pushover. Hence, domineering was good, but the show did demonstrate that if Sisko started drinking the Kool Aid, which was the plot of an episode where an Admiral thought he was... cause Sisko KINDA was, Sisko would have been OUT of Bajor.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

For me it made sense. Bajor was minor to the Federation but they did want someone skilled and good at the job and it's shown that Sisko probably would have been Captain had Wolf 359 never happened. After the wormhole made Bajor a major deal, Sisko stayed on for two reasons. He was Emissary, and he WAS good at the job. While DS9 wasn't shy in showing how the Federation plays politics, the Federation is shown to be competent and Starfleet knew Sisko as good at the job. The fact Sisko skirted some rules... like firing a federation security chief off screen cause Odo is a lil bitch or how he does intimidate others may be what is needed to make Bajor join the Federation.

Also yes, I DO like Odo a lot, but he can be a little bitch about security. I blame the founder in him.

When was it established that Sisko would have been captain if not for wolf 359?

And I do doubt the federation went so far as to embrace or promote Sisko’s more domineering nature.

Given his intelligence, courage, peoples skill, ability to handle crisies, and the fact he was liked and knew Admiral Layton very well, I gathered he was gonna be a Captain based on nothing but who he was as a person. Given he was first mate on a ship, it is likely he would have been Captain of another ship in 5 years given what kind of guy Sisko is. Unlike Riker, Sisko doesn't seem to have a hangup on being a Captain for years.

Given he had to handle the Cardassians and whatever came from the wormhole, you needed someone TOUGH, and not a pushover. Hence, domineering was good, but the show did demonstrate that if Sisko started drinking the Kool Aid, which was the plot of an episode where an Admiral thought he was... cause Sisko KINDA was, Sisko would have been OUT of Bajor.

So, it’s like, a guess?

[Nobody700]

Yeah but I say a valid one given he was made Captain at the end of season 3. He earned the job, and probably shoulda been captain much earlier. Though my confusion of ranks makes me wonder why, given he has a ship and a base and how important he was in the war, he wasn't a Commodore.

[McAvoy]

Yeah but I say a valid one given he was made Captain at the end of season 3. He earned the job, and probably shoulda been captain much earlier. Though my confusion of ranks makes me wonder why, given he has a ship and a base and how important he was in the war, he wasn't a Commodore.

He was promoted in between Wolf 359 and DS9. Three full years in DS9 as a commander before he was given the rank of captain. Now, Star Trek rank structure is all over the place in how promotions works, but the time frame for Sisko actually works.

The importance of DS9 especially after First Contact and their threat would be the only time period where his rank is a bit shakey. They gave him a ship, though the size of the ship even as powerful as the Defiant could have easily been captained by a commander. Not every ship would need a a officer the rank of Captain. But he was also the commander of DS9.

So my own theory is that the promotion was in works and Starfleet let it happen naturally even though they could have probably fast tracked it.

I do agree during the Dominion War he was effectively the equivalent of of Admiral Nimitz or Admiral Jellico the way he operated that war. He may not have been responsible for the entire Starfleet war operations but he did have a ton of authority. I don't even think Picard on the Enterprise-E had that, but that wasn't Picard's strength.

For war you want Sisko. For diplomacy you want Picard. You want Kirk if you want to see him judo chop Dukat, but let's not pretend if Sisko was allowed he would have backhanded Dukat too.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

For war you want Sisko. For diplomacy you want Picard. You want Kirk if you want to see him judo chop Dukat, but let's not pretend if Sisko was allowed he would have backhanded Dukat too.

More accurately I'd say Picard was exceptional at arbitration and adjudication, but carried over to his military tactics and interpersonal conflict.

Sisko also had arbitrational endowment as he was born by the prophets directly and was fated to guide the Bajorans. Kirk was just utterly resilient to any circumstance.

[stryke]

Sisko also had arbitrational endowment as he was born by the prophets directly and was fated to guide the Bajorans.

Man, I wish you hadn't put it like that, I mean it's totally right, but the more I think about it the more I hate it.

Add that to the list of why for as brilliant much of s7 is, good lord, does it have so, so, so many flaws tarnishing that brilliance.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Sisko also had arbitrational endowment as he was born by the prophets directly and was fated to guide the Bajorans.

Man, I wish you hadn't put it like that, I mean it's totally right, but the more I think about it the more I hate it.

Add that to the list of why for as brilliant much of s7 is, good lord, does it have so, so, so many flaws tarnishing that brilliance.

Also, I have a feeling that Picard's notable ability in The Next Generation has specifically to do with him mind melding with Sarek.

[Nobody700]

Ya know while we all have the joke of Kirk being an action star who only thinks with his dick... frankly he was always a very big thinking man. He LOVED to talk about the moral and ethical stuff, Philosophy, and he clearly knew about ancient history pretty well. The thing was, Kirk just also liked judo chopping aliens in the neck and than yanking their pants down to laugh at their junk. Hence I do think Kirk would have debated with Q a lot... and than try to teach Q his favorite letter in the english alphabet, W, for OW MY NECK, KIRK HIT ME!

[stryke]

Also, I have a feeling that Picard's notable ability in The Next Generation has specifically to do with him mind melding with Sarek.

See that to me is a lot more fine. He was already a captain of the flagship long before that, and that was more of being there in the right place at the right time and rising to the occasion.

Which was pretty much exactly the same as Sisko from s1-6.

s7 though makes him Luke Skywalker or any one of a score of generic fantasy protagonists, the one destined by divine birthright to be great, and so he is great, just cause.

[McAvoy]

Also, I have a feeling that Picard's notable ability in The Next Generation has specifically to do with him mind melding with Sarek.

See that to me is a lot more fine. He was already a captain of the flagship long before that, and that was more of being there in the right place at the right time and rising to the occasion.

Which was pretty much exactly the same as Sisko from s1-6.

s7 though makes him Luke Skywalker or any one of a score of generic fantasy protagonists, the one destined by divine birthright to be great, and so he is great, just cause.

Actually Picard becoming the captain of the flagship is the direct opposite of Sisko. As we have discussed right here in this thread, Sisko's rise though the ranks was written as naturally as someone could do in a military like Starfleet.

Picard's wasn't. Large gaps. He was on the Stargazer longer than Enterprise. He created a maneuver to save his crew. What else do we got? What did he di in between the Stargazer and Enterprise.