The Left was Anti-War even during the lead up to WW2 (and the Right was not)

[KuudereKun]

The US didn't enter the war until after Japan hit Pearl Harber and captured the Philippines, Guam, and a few other American territories and Germany declared war to support it's ally. It wasn't a war of choice, so the whole coulda woulda shoulda question is moot in any case.

All territories we had no right to in the first place. It's two Empires fighting over Colonies. Japan was never a credible threat to the actual American Homeland.

So, you're saying that the Americans should have just immediately surrendered to whatever the Japanese wanted (i.e. ending sanctions over their actions in China, seize the Philippines, probably other things)

Not only that but Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Killed thousands in that suprise attack. No one will just shrug and say oh well after that. That motivated the entire country to go to war against Japan. We had every bit the business to attack back. Not only that but there was that issue with their war crimes that the US was fully aware of coming out of China.

This isn't a case of the US just deciding one day to go to war with Japan.

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

And? That gives the Japanese the right to attack them too? I didn't know the Japanese owned those islands too. My mistake.

The point is it shouldn't be our business.

[McAvoy]

The US didn't enter the war until after Japan hit Pearl Harber and captured the Philippines, Guam, and a few other American territories and Germany declared war to support it's ally. It wasn't a war of choice, so the whole coulda woulda shoulda question is moot in any case.

All territories we had no right to in the first place. It's two Empires fighting over Colonies. Japan was never a credible threat to the actual American Homeland.

So, you're saying that the Americans should have just immediately surrendered to whatever the Japanese wanted (i.e. ending sanctions over their actions in China, seize the Philippines, probably other things)

Not only that but Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Killed thousands in that suprise attack. No one will just shrug and say oh well after that. That motivated the entire country to go to war against Japan. We had every bit the business to attack back. Not only that but there was that issue with their war crimes that the US was fully aware of coming out of China.

This isn't a case of the US just deciding one day to go to war with Japan.

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

And? That gives the Japanese the right to attack them too? I didn't know the Japanese owned those islands too. My mistake.

The point is it shouldn't be our business.

No that isn't the point because the US was already there. They were attacked at their military base in Pearl Harbor. It was entirely the US's business when they get attacked.

Your red herring of them not supposed to be there is noted though because it doesn't address the fact that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

That's the point. They attacked Pearl Harbor. Doesn't matter if Japan had no real strength to attack mainland America. Doesn't matter if America was on islands in the Pacific. Doesn't matter if Japan didn't truly threat the US in any kind of way. Doesn't matter if the US on restrictions on Japan that may have caused this.

They attacked Pearl Harbor. And if you knew anything about Japan that led up to that attack, then you would know better too.

There is a huge difference in not getting involved in a war on another continent and declaring war on a nation that attacks you and kills thousands. Destroys, damages or sinks your valuable military assets.

[KuudereKun]

The US didn't enter the war until after Japan hit Pearl Harber and captured the Philippines, Guam, and a few other American territories and Germany declared war to support it's ally. It wasn't a war of choice, so the whole coulda woulda shoulda question is moot in any case.

All territories we had no right to in the first place. It's two Empires fighting over Colonies. Japan was never a credible threat to the actual American Homeland.

So, you're saying that the Americans should have just immediately surrendered to whatever the Japanese wanted (i.e. ending sanctions over their actions in China, seize the Philippines, probably other things)

Not only that but Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Killed thousands in that suprise attack. No one will just shrug and say oh well after that. That motivated the entire country to go to war against Japan. We had every bit the business to attack back. Not only that but there was that issue with their war crimes that the US was fully aware of coming out of China.

This isn't a case of the US just deciding one day to go to war with Japan.

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

And? That gives the Japanese the right to attack them too? I didn't know the Japanese owned those islands too. My mistake.

The point is it shouldn't be our business.

No that isn't the point because the US was already there. They were attacked at their military base in Pearl Harbor. It was entirely the US's business when they get attacked.

Your red herring of them not supposed to be there is noted though because it doesn't address the fact that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

That's the point. They attacked Pearl Harbor. Doesn't matter if Japan had no real strength to attack mainland America. Doesn't matter if America was on islands in the Pacific. Doesn't matter if Japan didn't truly threat the US in any kind of way. Doesn't matter if the US on restrictions on Japan that may have caused this.

They attacked Pearl Harbor. And if you knew anything about Japan that led up to that attack, then you would know better too.

There is a huge difference in not getting involved in a war on another continent and declaring war on a nation that attacks you and kills thousands. Destroys, damages or sinks your valuable military assets.

The fact that you can so easily say that doesn't matter is the problem.

"They attacked us first" is School Yard logic.

[Nobody700]

Hey guys I got stabbed in the chest, and the guy started punching me hard. I knew not to resist because this wasn't the school yard, I was a full grown adult. Sure he stomped on my skull and broke my legs, but sadly... a person STOPPED him, and I was so horrified, I shall now go online and bash this man. Yes the mugger was in the wrong to stab me, but it takes two to fight, and by starting a fight, he made things WORSE!

[hammerofglass]

Ironically the schoolyard is the only time I've actually seen the "it takes two to fight so you should take the beating they gave you and be greatful" nonsense treated seriously. Because the school enforced it.

[TGLS]

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

OK, let's take this logic to its natural conclusion: "Well, Hank Scorpio seized the East Coast of America, but I mean we shouldn't have taken all that land from the Native Americans so we should just kind of let him have it."

[KuudereKun]

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

OK, let's take this logic to its natural conclusion: "Well, Hank Scorpio seized the East Coast of America, but I mean we shouldn't have taken all that land from the Native Americans so we should just kind of let him have it."

Alright you people are responding as if my point was some kind of Two Wrongs Make a Right arguments.

It's not about defending Japan's actions, it's about how America has no moral high ground.

I'm not even saying the US shouldn't have defended itself against an actual Invasion Hawaii, but that's not what Pearl Harbor was.

[Thebestoftherest]

Hey would this thread be better title history of America entering war world 2?

[hammerofglass]

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

OK, let's take this logic to its natural conclusion: "Well, Hank Scorpio seized the East Coast of America, but I mean we shouldn't have taken all that land from the Native Americans so we should just kind of let him have it."

Alright you people are responding as if my point was some kind of Two Wrongs Make a Right arguments.

It's not about defending Japan's actions, it's about how America has no moral high ground.

I'm not even saying the US shouldn't have defended itself against an actual Invasion Hawaii, but that's not what Pearl Harbor was.

Japanese troops took the Philippines and Guam within hours of Pearl Harbor and brutally occupied both until American troops drove them out near the end of the war. But sure, technically not Hawaii.

What does "moral high ground" even mean in war? Like Santa won't bring the state any ammo if they don't have good enough causus belli?

[KuudereKun]

The U.S. shouldn't have taken Hawaii or any of those other Pacific Islands in the first place.

OK, let's take this logic to its natural conclusion: "Well, Hank Scorpio seized the East Coast of America, but I mean we shouldn't have taken all that land from the Native Americans so we should just kind of let him have it."

Alright you people are responding as if my point was some kind of Two Wrongs Make a Right arguments.

It's not about defending Japan's actions, it's about how America has no moral high ground.

I'm not even saying the US shouldn't have defended itself against an actual Invasion Hawaii, but that's not what Pearl Harbor was.

Japanese troops took the Philippines and Guam within hours of Pearl Harbor and brutally occupied both until American troops drove them out near the end of the war. But sure, technically not Hawaii.

What does "moral high ground" even mean in war? Like Santa won't bring the state any ammo if they don't have good enough causus belli?

Hawaii was in the process of becoming an actual State soon, those other territories were not.

The Japanese oppressed them but were were not benevolent either.