The Left was Anti-War even during the lead up to WW2 (and the Right was not)

[CmdrKing]

Not a matter of changing minds. Moreso offering information to reveal new layers. Like this isn’t stubbornness at this point, this is using words in unusual or incomplete ways, or drawing conclusions from information not in evidence.

[KuudereKun]

That’s the precise opposite of what I said.

Of course it is, it's something I said in opposition to what you said.

[CmdrKing]

When my statement is “the breadtubers I follow describe themselves as anti-imperialist”, your statement isn’t an opposing one, it’s an incoherent one. You’re not providing any clearer definition of why our experiences would be different or why you believe that you’ve asserted.


You could certainly follow up my statement and ask for clarification or elaboration (eg “what YouTubers are you watching”) but simply asserting the opposite without any evidence or inquiring into my own statement simply makes you look like you didn’t read what I said.

Put another way you’re arguing so badly we can’t even talk about the value of your statements. We aren’t discussing things in common terms and you aren’t interrogating anyone’s positions, including your own.

Here’s the thing here. There IS a cohort of people on the internet who argue that Russia’s annexation of Ukraine is anti-imperialist, because they consider any action that strengthens a nation opposed to the US is anti-imperialist. So logically I believe that there is an opposed cohort of people online that assumes the term “anti-imperialist” is pro-Russian.

The issue here is you’re asserting “breadtubers” are part of that group
, presumably as evidence it’s a common and widespread belief, when that’s directly contrary to the experiences of everyone who’s responded to that point. Which suggests to ME that the people you’re thinking of aren’t influential or convincing to even the target audience of breadtubers, which raises the question of how meaningful or widespread this phenomenon is.

[hammerofglass]

I mean let's look at the big breadtubers. Hbomberguy, Vaush, Thought Slime, and Philosophy Tube. Lindsay Ellis, ContraPoints, and Shaun if you count people who get the label applied to them but reject it. Jessie Gender is a smaller channel but I know some people here watch her content so toss her in too.

None of them have political stances anything like what MithrandirOlorin is claiming is the mainstream opinion of Breadtubers in general in any of their material I've seen. Most of them are just outright anti-fascists.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I follow several breadtubers and none of them I’m aware of have made any comment on equating opposition to ‘just’ wars as isolationist. They’re mostly anti-imperialist, so it’s rare that they support many wars at all aside from supporting those opposing imperialist invasion.

Yeah most of Breadtube consider "Anti-Imperialist" a pro Putin dog whistle.

Breadtube has concern with reactionary movements that embolden systems of tradition in order to shroud progression in a political sense. Such sentiments are indeed exploited by Moscow, and Russia has been linked to election tampering if I'm not mistaken.

Reactionary American movements will claim progressive initiatives to be imperialist, thus proclaiming to be "anti-imperialist", but breadtube doesn't get that confused with what anti-imperialism ultimately means.

[CmdrKing]

I mean let's look at the big breadtubers. Hbomberguy, Vaush, Thought Slime, and Philosophy Tube. Lindsay Ellis, ContraPoints, and Shaun if you count people who get the label applied to them but reject it. Jessie Gender is a smaller channel but I know some people here watch her content so toss her in too.

None of them have political stances anything like what MithrandirOlorin is claiming is the mainstream opinion of Breadtubers in general in any of their material I've seen. Most of them are just outright anti-fascists.

Yup, I don't fuck with Vaush or Contra these days but that's exactly the sorta people I was thinking of and I've never seen them express anything like what's being claimed here. Jessie especially did a giant video about the history of Palestine like last week which talks repeatedly about Israel's settler-colonialist/imperialist history.